Greg Callaghan - Built on Consistency

Enduro doesn’t reward the loudest rider, it rewards the one who can repeat speed without breaking. Greg Callaghan has one of the deepest records in modern enduro mountain bike racing, with an almost unmatched run of starts and a 100 percent finish rate, and he’s built that career by making calm decisions when everyone else is hunting hero moments.

We start with riding in British Columbia and how Squamish terrain changes the way you think about risk, line choice, and progression compared with Ireland and Europe.

He shares why Enduro World Series racing clicked immediately, what it felt like when the first EWS start lists were packed with downhill and cross-country stars, and why he never felt the need to chase downhill glory.

We also dive into running a lean race program, bike setup and suspension evolution, and using tools like electronic suspension and training metrics without overcomplicating things.

Share it with your riding crew, hit follow, and tell us where you want to ride, the next chapter starts right now.

• Get in touch via my Instagram
• Hosted and Produced by Jarrad Connolly

Transcript

Intro And Squamish Warm Up

Jarrad 0:00

Today's guest is one of the most consistent and calculated racers in the world. With a hundred percent finish rate and the most starts of anybody in the history of Enjur. Born in Dublin and growing up through the moto and trial scene with his dad, Greg Callaghan's path into mountain biking wasn't exactly your typical one. From racing locally in Ireland to taking the jump onto the international stage, he's seen the sport grow from those early undefined days into what it is now. With over 90 finishes, along with multiple wins, podiums, he's been in the mix through every phase of the Enduro World Series. In this episode, we get into that journey, how the sport has changed, the reality of making it work as a rider, and who Greg is beyond the bike. Welcome to the podcast, Greg Callaghan.

Greg Callaghan 1:09

Yeah, good. Good, doing well.

Jarrad 1:11

Yeah.

Greg Callaghan 1:11

How are you?

Jarrad 1:12

Yeah, that's good. It was pretty special day out there. It was pretty sunny and nice blue skies.

Greg Callaghan 1:17

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I seem to have timed my trip quite nicely. I think there's been quite a bit of rain in the region this winter, spring, and since I've been here it's been beautiful sun. We had one wet day yesterday, but trails are perfect today.

Jarrad 1:29

Yeah, yeah. Full hero dirt.

Greg Callaghan 1:30

Yeah, yeah, it's sick, yeah.

Jarrad 1:32

So how how long have you been out here? Because you were down in California for a little bit and then that here.

Greg Callaghan 1:37

Yeah, so I went down to California to visit Ibis HQ and did sea otter, my first sea otter, so that was cool. And then flew up to Canada and spent a few days on the island. Mm-hmm. Which was sick. Never been out there, it was beautiful, it was really, really nice. Yeah, the riding over there is insane.

Jarrad 1:52

Yeah. Whereabouts on the island where you?

Greg Callaghan 1:54

We were based in Duncan, but rode Zoohalem, Broken Bridge, and I can't remember the name of the third place.

Jarrad 2:01

Maybe Provo.

Greg Callaghan 2:02

No, didn't get to Proveau. Somewhere near Nanaimo.

Jarrad 2:05

Yeah, okay.

Greg Callaghan 2:06

Um but Everton was insane.

Jarrad 2:08

Yeah. Yeah, the riding is just next level over there. I feel like it's more racer tracks over there versus over here are more sort of that free ride, big rocky slabs.

Greg Callaghan 2:20

Yeah, and it it was a nice intro actually into BC terrain for me because it was we didn't do anything too crazy, and then you come here to squash, and you can get pretty crazy if you want.

Jarrad 2:29

Oh yeah. Yeah, it's it's very easy to jump from like a basic trail into something, can you like I'm halfway down this like 45 degree rock slab and I'm not stopping.

Greg Callaghan 2:40

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like we were just riding this afternoon with like a good, real good crew of riders, Elliot James and Jesse Melbed and Leif Rogers and Johnny Helly and everyone just crazy. But there was a couple of times we got to like the top of rocks, and I was like, that's just a cliff, like that's enough for bikes. And then like Leif would be like, ah that's fine, and he rode down it. I was just like, no, that no. Doesn't make sense to me.

Jarrad 3:01

Yeah, the the like riding down the rock is less scary for me. It's more the g out at the bottom. Like I look at some of these things that they ride down and I'm like, sure, like I can get down stuff like that, but if I g out at the bottom, I feel like I'm just headbutting the handlebars. Like, I don't I don't know. They're so insane, some of the guys.

Greg Callaghan 3:21

And it's such a like different approach to riding for me. Because like in Ireland and Europe where I'm from, like trails are kind of built for everyone, and the better you are, you can ride it faster, or you find a nice line or a nice little gap on the trail, but like it's nothing crazy. Yeah. And you're rarely scared unless you just went too fast or did something yourself. Whereas here, like the scale of gnarliness just goes forever. Like there's stuff that's built for one or two people to hit. Yeah. Yeah, like the few days I've been here, it's been a week now. Like I've been scared more times than and I haven't even been doing anything crazy, but there's still moments where you're like, whoa, this is spicy.

Jarrad 3:57

Yeah. I I wanted to ask you that in the sense of like the riding in Ireland, as you just mentioned, is like kind of I feel more like how the riding is in Australia in in a sense of like the trails get hard to a certain point, and then they just like not chill out, but like they just pause at a certain point, and then you just ride them faster until you can't ride them any faster type situation. Versus here, as you say, just like just endless possibilities of getting harder. How how do you approach something like that? Like I feel like from where you are, your riding level, obviously you're you're one of the best in the world at the end of the day. Like, where does your mental aspect look at that?

Greg Callaghan 4:42

Yeah, I think I kind of I know my place, I guess, and I know I'm good at certain things, but like that's not my thing. Yeah. So when we get scenarly stuff, I'm perfectly fine with just being like, nah, that's not for me, and you know, staying within my my zones of what I know I can do and I know it's safe, especially now, like we're coming into the season, like I don't need to press anyone riding any crazy rock rolls or anything. So yeah, I'm I'm happy to stay in my box, to be honest. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. Yeah, I get I can see how you could easily get carried away, especially when you're with people who are familiar with this stuff and are just doing it. Yeah. You could be like, Oh, he did it, I'll do it, that's fine, but that's that's just not me.

Jarrad 5:19

Yeah, yeah, it's always one of those things, and I always find and I hear people getting caught up in that so often where it's like, oh yeah, like if we're on the World Cup circuit or we're doing this or we're doing that, my skill level is equal or better to what the people I'm riding with, but then you go to their home trail and they do some gnarly gap or some gnarly rock slab, and you're like, Yeah, it should be sweet, but it's like so different, as you say. Yeah, yeah.

Greg Callaghan 5:43

And it's so cool to be here and see that too. Yeah. You know, and yeah, step out of your comfort zone a little bit and just see unfamiliar terrain. Especially when all these guys come to Europe and we race and they talk about it, so it's cool to be here and getting getting shown around by them. So is this your first time in Squamish or have you been here a couple of times or I've been here a few times, but mainly when I've been in this area, it's been for the Whistler race, Crankworks. Um and I've passed through Squamish for maybe a day or two and just done like a ride. It's a pretty chill ride.

Jarrad 6:14

Yeah, like a shakedown type situation.

Greg Callaghan 6:16

Yeah, exactly. So I haven't done much. Um so yeah, to be here for this. Like it'll be ten days by the time I leave. Yeah. Ten or eleven days. That's a nice, nice stint to explore. And it's so funny because you get here and it's the same anytime you travel with Bikem, people tell you of all the places you should go. Yeah. So you get here and people are like, Oh, you need to go to Pembe, you need to go here, blah blah blah. And I'm like, No, no, I'm actually trying to stay in Squamish this time.

Jarrad 6:36

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's like the whole seas of sky from yeah, you can go further than North Van, but let's say North Van all the way through to Pemberton is just like Yeah. It's wonderland for bikes kind of thing.

Greg Callaghan 6:49

Yeah, yeah. Disneyland for grownups really.

Jarrad 6:51

Yeah, a hundred percent, yeah. And then once Whistler's open and that whole valley, it's just insane.

From Moto Trials To MTB Racing

Greg Callaghan 6:56

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Jarrad 6:57

Um so let's go back. I kind of want to ask you a bit about your transition into mountain biking. Obviously, you you grew up with motorbikes, uh a few things like that. Was the bikes like the bicycles always there, or did they kind of come in at a different age, or um yeah?

Greg Callaghan 7:16

Yeah, I think the bicycles were always there, but it was more as a toy, yeah. You could say, as a kid. Like I grew up with my dad and my uncles racing motorbikes. My dad was motorbike in Jureau, most of my uncles were trials. So I was surrounded by that the whole time. And I had like I got my first motorbike at four. Yeah. But you could only ride that when your dad when my dad took me out. 100%. You know, and you were in a certain area where you could do it. Whereas I'd come home from school and I'd pick up a bicycle and just go mess around outside the house or in the estate and just find things to jump off and all that. So it was always there. And then yeah, I did trials from when I was eight until I was like sixteen, seventeen, but when I was fifteen, a guy in my school that I like would mess around on bikes with, he had I think a cousin was home from Canada. Okay. Actually from like this region, which is quite funny, and he had like gotten into downhill mountain biking and he like found out about these jumps. And he was like, Oh, you should come to the jumps, like if you like bikes. And we went to the jumps a few times, and then like I met some people there my age that were into mountain biking, and they were like, Oh, you should come to the mountains and go mountain biking. And then that was it, really. Then it kind of went from like at the weekends being like, Come on, let's go ride trials bikes, let's go drive trials bikes to like doing more and more on the mountain bike. Yeah. And uh just gradually tr transitioned into mountain bikes.

Jarrad 8:36

I feel like I had a very similar upbringing in the sense of like same thing. Like, I think I got my first motorbike when I was like three or four type situation, and then every every day after school, it was like literally one Christmas, me and all the friends got given a shovel each to go build jumps for Christmas type thing. And it's like exactly as you said, like it was always there just to pass the time when you couldn't go motorbike riding, and then yeah, eventually, like, and I don't know how it was for you, but for me, it was like I actually had quite a big injury. I dislocated my hip and I started riding the mountain bikes just to to rehab and then uh eventually progressed into being so much more accessible than than all the m all the motorbike stuff. Mm-hmm. And then yeah.

Greg Callaghan 9:23

Yeah, because motorbiking, like it's amazing, but it's it's not just going out for an hour, is it? No. You know, you need to be a whole day. Yeah, it's a whole day, exactly. Whereas the bike you can literally come home from school or whatever and go for an hour. Yeah. Um and that like where we lived was just on the edge of Dublin, at the bottom of the Dublin Mountain, so I could so quickly be on trails. Yeah. So it was just so accessible, yeah.

Jarrad 9:45

Yeah. Yeah, as I say, it's it's pretty wild. So then as you started to progress further into the mountain bike side of things, where did that take you? Like I rem I looked back a bit on the the Instagram side of things, and I feel like you were in that same world, like that sort of 2006-2007 sort of world of like party mountain bike when like Kavarak and Rennie and all those guys, and then I guess Sam was sort of on the world stage at that point. Yeah, yeah, he was peak, really. Yeah. Yeah. Like how was that for you growing up in that world and also being in that world of like starting to transition into the the sort of international side of things? Because I guess for you, being in Ireland, it's like fairly close to Europe where a lot of that racing was happening.

Greg Callaghan 10:34

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, it was a pretty sick generation to be a fan. Yeah. Like I remember the first race I watched like on TV was we all went around to my friend's house and we watched 2007 Fort William World Champs. Yeah. And yeah, like I just remember like Sam bending his crank and yeah, like it was just uh it was exciting to watch, and then you would get the DVDs, you know, earthed and and all these, and there was so much excitement around when you got that and when you got to see these people ride in video. Um so yeah, that kind of made me race more and more, gave me the gave me the goo for that. And I guess first international, the thing in Ireland is like it's a it's a fairly small pond, so like I was relatively quickly onto the Irish team and got went to world champs, uh sorry, European champs in Slovenia, and that was my first race outside of Ireland, I think. If I remember right. No, so I'd raced a little bit in Wales and maybe Scotland, but it was my first race, yeah, international race. Yeah. And I was a massive eye opener, it was crazy. Um like I remember my seating run. There was always David Graham was a guy that I'd always battled in like you under 16, and he had beaten me, he was always beating me, and then the first seating run he like absolutely smoked me. I was like, oh what the hell? And then I just got like I found another gear in my race run and went like 15 seconds quicker. It was crazy. Yeah, and it like it just that was like the catalyst of like, oh, this is how you race. Yeah, like you can actually push it, and like I had just been so smooth before and like reserved in my race runs, so that was kind of a big click. And then yeah, I raced a few downhill world cups unsuccessfully. Did a couple of four Williams, a couple of Leo Gangs, did Leo Gang World Champs, Champrey World Champs, but it's quite funny in hindsight. At the time I thought I was trying really hard and training hard and doing things well, and now that I've actually trained properly for in Juro, I'm like, oh man, I was so half-assed by so like it's no wonder I wasn't getting any results, you know. But I what I with the where I lived, it suited so well for enduro riding, and I would love just riding from my house up to the mountains. So like if we were going downhill riding, I would start from home and ride to whatever spot.

Jarrad 12:45

Yeah.

Greg Callaghan 12:45

And in hindsight, like I was doing in Juro.

Jarrad 12:48

Yeah.

Greg Callaghan 12:48

You know, I I could now see that, but at the time I was like, oh no, I'm just going to that downhill spot that's 30k way over two mountains.

Jarrad 12:53

Yeah. And you just like, yeah, literally recreating Enduro before it even happened, type situation.

Greg Callaghan 13:00

Yeah, and it was just mountain biking, really. Yeah. And at the same time, like I would any race that was on, I would do it. Like if there was a cross-country race, I would just go and do it. And if there was down a race, I would do that as well. So then when Enduro did start to show up, and I think it was 2012 was the first year the Irish series happened, I was just like, This is perfect. Like this is what I do anyway. And like I having grown up watching my dad race Moto Enduro, yeah, it also appealed to me on that side too. So yeah, it was kind of straight away just like, yeah, this is this is for me, this is the writing I want to do.

Enduro Arrives And EWS Takes Off

Jarrad 13:32

Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. How because essentially you've raced every year that there's been an EWS or EWR or whatever they want to call it these days. Um but it's it's crazy to think like how early on that you're in on that and almost very specifically on that. Never really had, like you said, you raced a few downhills and things like that, but as soon as it came around, you very much were like hardcore in that world.

Greg Callaghan 14:00

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, as I say, it just straight away it it just resonated with me, and it was what I wanted to do. And we were fortunate in Ireland too that Niall Davis, the organiser of the races, he was kind of ahead of the curve, and that year the Irish series was one of the biggest series, and like the first race we had Jerome Clements, Nicolo, Joe Barnes, like all these international riders that he he reached out to and brought them to the race, so like straight away it was on the map, you know. So then my first year racing in Juro, I was racing the world's best on my home trails. So that was such a motivating factor and such a like catalyst to make me be like, right, there's something here. And I remember like one of the races, Renee Wildabber came, Joe Barnes, Tracy Mosley, and her husband James Barner at the time. Um and they like after the race, like I was I think I was third behind Joe and Renee, and they kind of had a word with me and just like, oh, you should you should try this. You should push on a bit, and then sure enough, EWS came around the following year, and I kind of you could say I had a bit of a head start, maybe, yeah.

Jarrad 14:59

Yeah, I know. So once the EWS started, what did that look like for you? I know thinking back and and like essentially living on the other side of the world, they were trying to do the enduro thing in Australia, but it was I would say a little hit and miss. There's a couple of good promoters that same sort of thing, started to build out these they called it uh a superflow, I think it was, um, in Australia before they really hooked onto the Enduro side of things. But as you started to progress into that World Cup side of things, how did that look in the just the environment? Like I feel like there was so many because it's a new let's call it a new sport or a new discipline without it being a new sport, there were so many crossovers. Like you had like Gravesy from the downhill, like and everything else he did, like yourself, like you had uh like uh Jerome Clemens and even Nino Shiru. Yeah, yeah. He did a couple, maybe one. I feel like there was just so much crossover from all these other disciplines and fairly high up people in that too. Like you look at some of the start lists from that first year, it's insane.

Greg Callaghan 16:09

Yeah.

Jarrad 16:10

Like, how did that feel? Because I've I know turning up to some of the races that I raced, it was like you would stand next to Sam or you'd stand next to some of these other guys that you've watched on like live TV racing mountain bikes. Like, how was that for you?

Greg Callaghan 16:27

Yeah, same. Like it was just felt like you were just standing beside Giants. Like I remember the first prologue prologue, sorry, in Puntala, which was the first ever stage, and it was like a stage through the town, it was really cool. I remember queuing up in practice beside Gravesy and just being like, Oh my god, that's Jared Graves. Yeah. So yeah, there was such a buzz around at the start, it was so cool. Um, and like, yeah, so many riders were intrigued by it. And I think as well, the other disciplines downhill and cross-country were a little less pigeonholed maybe than they are right now, so people had time in their programs. Because now, like, you know, they're searching for every one percent, so they're not gonna spend a free weekend racing in Enduro, whereas back then it was like, Oh yeah, this is this is fun, probably decent training, I'll just go and do it. And brands were also excited, so they were supporting them to go and do it as well. So yeah, the buzz was the buzz was real for sure.

Jarrad 17:18

Yeah. Did you ha have much of an interest in going back to the downhill in those early days, or are you pretty set on the enduro, like pretty excited by it?

Greg Callaghan 17:27

No, it's never really appealed to me to be honest. Um I just enduro's just for me. Like I'm fully just an enduro rider, and there's been definitely times, like with you know, Martin going across and Richie going across and doing well, and there's definitely people who've said, like, oh, would you try some downhills? And I've always been like, ah, it's just I'm an enduro rider, I don't need to try be a downhill rider. And there's been there has been times when I've been tempted. Um, you know, I had a downhill bike a few years ago and I thought about doing the last couple of World Cups, but it didn't really work out. And I'm sure it would have been fun, but at the same time I think it'd maybe be naive of me to think that I could get a bike, spend a month on it, and compete with these guys that are you know the best in the world and they're so refined with their setup and everything with those bikes. Whereas I feel like for me when I get on a downhill bike I have the same ceiling as I do on my enduro bike of speed. Yeah. Because I haven't learned what the bike is capable of, you know.

Jarrad 18:22

Yeah, I I would have to say the same thing in the sense of like yes, obviously you can go faster and and all the rest of it, but and I know talking with a bunch of other top-level enduro races at the moment is just like your IS speed isn't there, like the precision isn't there. Like, yes, technically you're racing at a hundred percent when you're racing enduro, but there isn't that like fine-tuned like precision, I feel. Yeah. And like that's the difference.

Greg Callaghan 18:53

Yeah, and like I've done shuttle days with download guys over the years plenty, and you know, the first one, two, three, four runs, I'll be like, oh, this is sweet, like I can keep up, I'm doing pretty well, but then they just keep going. You know, the fifth to sixth, seventh run, they just keep getting faster and faster, and I'll probably have that fourth, fifth run pace all day. And that's I can ride it all day, but I would struggle to find that extra gear that that they would.

Jarrad 19:18

Do you find that there would be anything you could do to change that? Or do you think that's just how you're built yourself out now?

Greg Callaghan 19:26

Yeah, I'm sure like you can change everything, but I think it would be hard to change. Yeah. I think even in injuro that's kind of my style is consistency over craziness, maybe. Yeah.

Jarrad 19:38

Yeah, some of those one-off lines and things like that.

Greg Callaghan 19:41

Yeah, yeah, like I'll quite often have you know pretty clean stages and races. Yeah. And sometimes you're like, oh, I wish I could just hang it out a bit more, but then you know, I also haven't had too many injuries and track records pretty good, so it's probably a good thing.

Jarrad 19:54

Yeah, well like uh I have to look into the guy that created that website that's just popped up in the past couple of days. But it was like, what was it, 91 starts out of 95 races total. Yeah. Like Yeah, I've missed four.

Greg Callaghan 20:09

I missed the first year I didn't go to North America, so I missed two. I just didn't know the money. And then 2015 I missed someone for uh I broke my hand. And twenty nineteen I missed Madeira, I broke my foot. Yeah. Which is like insane.

Jarrad 20:23

Yeah, when you say consistency, like I I'm a big Moto follower and things like that, and it's like you hear all these stats of like, oh yeah, such and such has like made it to X amount of main events and whatever else. And like I hear that stat and I'm like, that's insane. Like that's that's a 99% like start rate.

Greg Callaghan 20:45

Yeah, yeah. And the thing I'm kind of more proud of is it's a hundred percent finish rate too. Yeah. So I've never had a DNF. Yeah. Um, which yeah, it's quite mad because there's definitely been times when I probably could have, probably should have.

Jarrad 20:59

Yeah, yeah, that's insane.

Greg Callaghan 21:01

Yeah.

Jarrad 21:01

Um talking about like hanging it out and and things like that, when some of the the riders are coming across, I'm thinking of like people like Jack Moyer and and those guys that are sort of that downhill background and like top-level downhill background, how do you see their progression? Like when you've obviously ridden in the Enduro side of things for so long, you've seen people come and go. Like Sam was another big one that like essentially changed the game on how you can ride an Enduro bike, I feel. Like, how how do you see that from your end being in the game so much?

Greg Callaghan 21:37

Yeah, it's always it's always been interesting because Enduro's always had such a variety of riders. Like if you put Jesse Mellimet, Jack Moore, Richie Rude, Sam Hill all beside each other, yeah. They're they're different physical builds to begin with. And they would ride a track so differently and how they would see a trail. But they could all finish on the same second. Yeah. It's so bizarre. Um So like definitely people come and Sam was a great example of he came and you know, he takes different lines, he rides in a different way, and then everyone just starts thinking, like, Oh yeah, we need inside, we need to ride flat pedals. But that's it's his style and it's what he's so good at, you know. And he made he made things look so easy, was the Yeah, his his riding style is insane.

Jarrad 22:18

Like I remember watching one video and it was quite I can't remember which race it was, but it was a super muddy race, and he inside the corner and there was like a big pallet on the outside, and everyone was using the pallet as like a wall ride almost.

Greg Callaghan 22:31

Yeah, Columbia.

Jarrad 22:32

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And there's like, yeah, that was an insane. It was so sick. Yeah, yeah. But yeah.

Greg Callaghan 22:38

Yeah, he's he's definitely had some impressive ones. And one that stands out for me was Whistler, and I still think it's maybe the gnarliest stage we've ever done. It was Top of the World Into Ride, Don't Slide. So it was like 12, 13 minutes, but it was so gnarly and steep in compressions. And like I remember like most of us took our goggles off because for me I was sweating inside the goggles, and then when you're hitting compressions, the sweat's going on your lens. Yeah. So you have to take them off. And then at the bottom, there's all these like doubles compressions that you normally would be trying to double and get the flow and pump and accelerate. And I remember being so fatigued that I was death gripping and trying my hardest to case these doubles to slow down without breaking. Yeah, it was crazy. And we got to the bottom of the stage, and we were over at the feed zone, and someone came over and was like, Oh, do you want to know the times? And she was like, Yeah, we were like, Yeah, go on. And she said, Oh, Sam, you won the stage by 17 seconds. And he had just been complaining about how bad he rode the track. And he's like, Oh, I'd take my goggles off, I did this, I did that. And then he just looked at us and he was like, What were you guys doing? We were just like, Oh my god. Yeah. And then the funny thing that happened after that was we got to the top of the next stage, and so Jesse Mellamed was obviously the local and kind of the you know one of the picks for the race, you could say. And uh no one else knew the times. And he was like, Oh, does that like did anyone hear the times? And I was like, Oh yeah, Sam won the stage by 17 seconds, and I just saw Sam look at me and I was like, Oh crap, I shouldn't have said that. And then like we me and Sam walked back to get our bikes, and he was just like, Why'd you tell him that? Yeah, because now he's gonna hang it out. And Jesse won the next stage by almost the same. Really? I would rod the background and they went on to have a battle. Wow. And it was just it was so funny. It was a good one.

Jarrad 24:19

How is the mental games? Like, because I feel like the way that the media sort of portrays the transitions and and I know talking with a lot of the guys, everyone's like, oh yeah, it's so fun, everyone's like pretty chill, everyone chats, and blah blah blah. But I feel like there has to be some form of mental games. Like knowing like I grew up quite fairly close to where Jack grew up, and uh Jack's mechanic is going to be my best man at the wedding, and like so knowing Jack and knowing how he operates, and then a few of the other guys, like surely there has to be some mental games on the the transitions, or or it's pretty chill.

Greg Callaghan 24:57

Honestly, it's really chill. Yeah. I think we're all really good mates, and I think we all respect that we're racing against the clock on the track. Yeah. And there really over the years hasn't been many rivalries, which is pretty incredible. Yeah. Um I think people have different strengths and weaknesses for sure, and people have different approaches, but generally, you know, you'll see someone will get a mechanical and their competitors will be the first to help them and fix the bike, and it's a really cool thing about the sport, to be fair. Um, I think yeah, there's maybe a little bit when you do get some battles, especially as the season goes on, maybe some stuff starts to to creep in. But yeah, in general it's it's very chill. One funny thing I always notice is uh going up to stage one of a race is always the quietest time of the weekend. Yeah. Everyone's quiet, keeps to themselves just like going through their process to build up to be ready to for stage one. And then once that stage is over, the next liaisons everyone's just chatting and having a laugh.

Jarrad 25:56

Yeah, once once the ice is broken almost.

Greg Callaghan 25:58

Yeah, the tension's kind of gone then, you know.

Jarrad 26:00

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's always interesting when I even remember sitting on the bus, like doing shuttles with like the racing and the downhill side of things, it was always the same. Like the first run of practice, everyone's like and like almost like deer in headlights waiting for the penny to drop, and then it definitely changes for sure. Yeah, it's interesting, yeah.

Greg Callaghan 26:22

But no, I can't say I've seen too many mind games over the years. I think maybe pff No. No, not a whole lot.

Jarrad 26:29

Yeah. Yeah, I kind of always wondered that. Because as I say, it's always portrayed as very like friendly and chill and and yeah, as I say, even like talking to a lot of the riders, no one's really and when I say talking to a lot of riders, like at that level of that sort of top ten level, you're all riding with each other at the end of the day, and essentially it's kind of like going on a big group ride.

Greg Callaghan 26:51

Yeah, yeah, it is. And to be fair, you could be tricked into thinking everyone is just relaxed and carefree and just kind of letting things happen. But the more you kind of watch people, you realize they're doing little things to get themselves ready. They might quietly go and watch a GoPro or do some breath work or whatever it is, and everyone is focused and doing what they need to do to be ready, but I wouldn't say there's people trying to interfere with other people. Yeah. Mental side.

Jarrad 27:19

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, a little different to what I hear Jackson and Loe going through at the moment. Well, when they were going through last year. Yeah. I heard some heard some wine games happening there for sure.

Greg Callaghan 27:29

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but that's it's so m the mental side of that sport is so big. Yeah. And it's well, in that case it was very much a head-to-head scenario, wasn't it?

Jarrad 27:39

Yeah. Yeah, that was a that was an insane season. Pretty excited for this weekend, to be honest.

Greg Callaghan 27:43

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jarrad 27:45

Um I want to ask you a bit about your team and creating your own team, building everything around you versus what you've done in the past with like a bunch of the factory teams. How did that come about? Obviously you needed to build a team to go racing essentially at the end of the day, but was there much of a decision to do that, or is kind of just brought upon you with the way sponsorship was happening in because obviously COVID and things were happening and how it was a bit of both.

Greg Callaghan 28:14

Yeah, it was kind of circumstantial. Um like obviously the team I was on, DaVinci closed down. Um and then Yeah, I went looking. There was kind of I'd had some kind of tough years in that setup and was really keen to get my best out the following season, you know. So I wasn't I wasn't just writing emails to every team out there, I was kind of selecting what bike I wanted to ride and what people I want around me. And the teams I did contact just weren't keen, really, uh whether there wasn't a spot or they just didn't didn't see it in me. Um so that didn't work out, and then I was like, right, I'm not gonna go ride for a team that I don't think I can perform on, so I want to be on a bike, I know I can perform on. And I kind of selected a few bikes, and when I reached out to Ibis, they were really quick to be like, Yeah, we can't promise a whole lot, but like for sure we can help you. And it was me going to them saying I want to ride your bike. It wasn't wasn't saying I need this much money to do it, you know. It was uh it was very much uh this is the bike I want to be on. Yeah. Um and we had chatted over the years before about joining team and and stuff, but it just never had lined up, so it was uh it became a pretty easy choice. That was that was the brand, and then I sat about um getting other sponsors around that to kind of you know get the budget up to go racing and and make that happen. And yeah, it was quite a lot of work at first, but to be fair, since then it's it's been really good and it's been really cool as well to have relationships direct with the brands because when you're on a team it goes through the team manager and the chain of communication is doesn't always go the whole way through, so it's quite nice to actually get to speak to brands and build those relationships and it's been really, really interesting. And yeah, I think it it also fits in Juro, and I think it fits in Jure now, but I think it always has in a way to have a smaller setup. Like I think back to I think like 2016, 17, 18, Adrian Day with Lapierre had just it was him and his mechanic, yeah, and sometimes his coach would be there as well, and they're it was just them in a rental van, and they could shuttle themselves easily, they could you know the mechanic was focused on one bike and it was just really efficient because in Enduro you go to a venue and you're all over the valley, you're all over the place. So having a big truck and a big pit just doesn't really make sense, you don't use it. So yeah, it just really it really made sense for me. Yeah, and it it works it's worked out well, yeah.

Jarrad 30:34

I feel like it must be way more relaxing. I know talking to Elliot with what he went through and now he's on the the whole specialized deal, but he was talking about how he went back to the small van, back to the easy, just like centered everything around himself. Like it took so much pressure off not having the the big truck there.

How Bikes Changed And Flight Attendant

Greg Callaghan 30:54

Yeah, exactly. And it's for me it's giving me so much more accountability. Yeah. Because when you're on a team, you're kind of your team camps and your testing and your preparation is is kind of in someone else's hands, and if it's not done correctly, you you're just like, oh well, such and such didn't we didn't do this camp, so we're not prepared, whatever. Whereas now I'm like, oh I want to test tires, I'll just go and do it. Yeah. I want to test suspension, I want a good weather riding camp, I just go and do it, you know. And it's made me really look more into the kind of holistic package of my performance with the bike and my training and everything. And I think I've definitely it's made me like step up on that side of things because it's it's all on me. Like I can't go to a race and and blame anyone else. Like it's all on me, so I need to yeah, I need to leave no stone stone unturned.

Jarrad 31:40

Yeah, for sure. How have you seen the bike evolve? Because like obviously, well, I I even know a lot of it has evolved, but like over the years, like how and then into now, like you're talking about you've built the team around what you want to do and parts that you want to ride and frames and things like that. Like, how do you feel like your bikes in the past have sort of compared to what you wanted to ride to what you can now ride now? Because essentially you can pick and choose whatever in that sense.

Greg Callaghan 32:11

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Like, so I've actually kept a bike each year. So I have, yeah, since 2013, I have one of every bike I've raced basically. So like when I go home, like there's a 26-inch indue bike there. And I sit on it, I'm like, oh my god, this is a BMX. Yeah. And then like 2015, the bike I got my first win on was a 650B with a 435 reach. Yeah. Like now I have a 480 reach, so like it's tiny. Yeah. So I think like geometry and wheel size, of course, has has changed. But I think the the one that's seen less, but is massive is the kinematics of bikes. And they're they pedal so well now, but they also absolutely haul downhill. Yes. Like it blows my mind when I ride my Ritmo how much hammering you can give it and how quickly you can get back up the hill, and especially with flight attendant and these things that you know they just all help to make it more efficient. So I feel like now the you know the bandwidth of an enduro bike is so much wider than it was in 2013, say. Yeah, like in 2013 you would really wouldn't have taken an indubike to a download race. No. Or an XC race. Whereas now, you know, you could put a set of light wheels and tires on an indubike and you know, you wouldn't be completely out of the ass side of actually it can be pretty far back, like, but you could do it. Yeah. But you could absolutely take it to a downhill race, you know.

Jarrad 33:30

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, and I feel like it's funny because I almost say that like racing in Juro is just racing downhill on a small bike. I think Eddie Masters was it Eddie? It was either him or one of the other boys was uh explaining Enduro as like long form downhill.

Greg Callaghan 33:48

Yeah, yeah, it can be. I think there was a point we got too close to that. Yeah. Um, but yeah, absolutely it can it can be, and multiple multiple times, yeah, for sure. It uh some of the stuff is pretty gnarly. Like I remember in the early days, Sam Blakensop did a bit of switching between Enduro and Downhill, and someone asked him which was gnarlier, and he was like, for sure, Enduro. You don't know where you're going. You've got less suspension, less protection, and you're sending it.

Jarrad 34:13

Yeah.

Greg Callaghan 34:13

Whereas in downhill, by the time you get to a race run, you know every inch of where your tires are going to be. Oh yeah. You know, it's all pre-planned, pre-meditated. So like yeah, in Juros it's gnarly in different ways. Someone someone put it well to me once that in Juros or downhill is so impressive because it's so fast. Whereas in Juro, it's fast for the trail. Yeah. Which is it's harder to translate and harder to see, you know.

Jarrad 34:36

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's I don't know. You go so deep in that that type of thing. Yeah, exactly. Um I completely lost where I was going with that. Anyway. Um when when we're talking about uh oh flight attendant.

Greg Callaghan 34:54

You mentioned I was gonna say it was bikes. Yes.

Jarrad 34:58

Flight flight attendant you mentioned. Have you done much with the electronic suspension? Are you riding that at the moment or yeah.

Greg Callaghan 35:05

Yeah, I had flight attendant all last year.

Jarrad 35:08

Yeah.

Greg Callaghan 35:08

Still have it now, yeah.

Jarrad 35:09

And you're racing with that still or yeah?

Greg Callaghan 35:12

Yeah, yeah. I love it. It's so impressive. Like it doesn't it doesn't affect the descending ability of the bike at all.

Jarrad 35:19

Yeah.

Greg Callaghan 35:19

But then anytime you're pedaling going uphill, whatever, it'll read your power and lock or go into pedal mode. But the thing I use the most in racing is the override. So on my shifter, I could just flick a button and I have it that it'll go into pedal mode.

Jarrad 35:33

Okay.

Greg Callaghan 35:33

So if there's like a pumpy section, or even like in Loudonville, there was a case where we had like a kind of like a motocross style wall jump. Yeah. That on the back of it was just a compression to massive bottom out. And I just flicked this and my bike just was absorbed it. Was way firmer, you know. And it just went and it carried on. Yeah, wow. So yeah, I use it quite a lot in racing, actually, it's quite a help.

Jarrad 35:56

You're not overthinking about it, it just like happens pretty naturally. It's kind of like shifting gears, I guess.

Greg Callaghan 36:01

Yeah, exactly. And you would kind of plan it beforehand, so I'll know that you know, I'll switch it on here and I'll switch it off there. And I wouldn't use it a whole lot because the automatic stuff does a lot of the work for you as well. It's only in cases where yeah, yeah, for example, pumping through a flat section where I w I want to make it look.

Jarrad 36:19

Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, as I say, it's working in the retail world and then like just talking with different people. It's always so interesting hearing everyone's different uh opinions about it. But I feel there's so many hot takes and everyone's like, oh, it's an XC thing, it's this, it's that. And it's like, I don't know, I feel like Yeah.

Greg Callaghan 36:41

Like just climbing up a hill, your bike's just fully solid. Yeah. It's so efficient. And I think the thing I've noticed is you don't realise how much it's doing until you ride without it. And then you're like, whoa. Yeah. I'm moving so much here.

Offseason Balance Training And Data

Jarrad 36:56

Yeah, it's it's insane. Um is like stuff you're doing off the bike. Um, I feel like anybody that's gonna follow you on Instagram, anybody that follows any of the social medias, the racing, the whatever, they really only see that side of you. What what are you doing in the off season? Does your life revolve around the bikes? Like, I know I speak to some people and it's like, yeah, I just get on and I ride my bike every day because I enjoy it, like, and it just happens to be that that's my job, but like then I know other people that are like, oh yeah, like I don't touch the bike for like a month of the year and I just go surfing every day, and it's like how how does that look for you being in Ireland? And and obviously the weather plays a big part in that as well, I'm guessing.

Greg Callaghan 37:44

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's it's changed over the years, I would say. Like I used to come home from the season burned out, and I would park the bike for three, four weeks, and just go be a normal person, you know, and go to the pub at the weekends and just hang out with my friends and do other stuff, and maybe a bit of running would be my exercise kind of outlet. And after three or four weeks I'd be like, Right, I'm I really want to ride my bike now, and then I'd I'd take it out again. But as the years have gone on, I've kind of learned to enjoy the training more and enjoy the you know, enjoy the climbing, the uphills, the heart, the the less fun stuff you could say. And also find a balance with in-season life. So now I get to the end of the season and I still just ride. Like I'll maybe take a week where I'm just knackered from the end of the season, but yeah, like I I just love biking now. Um I always have, but now it's kind of more of a healthy relationship, you could say, where I don't really get burnt out with it. And even last season, our season finished earlier, so I did like an XE Marathon race in October, and I had like a six-week block where I was just like, Oh, I'm just gonna train like no coach, no plan, just listen to my body and go ride what I want to ride, and I ended up just doing like a massive six weeks. Yeah, wow. And that was not because I had to, it was just because that's what I wanted to do. So yeah, like I'm living in in the French Alps now as well, so you've that element of exploring a new place. Yeah. Which at that time of year, when you're not tied to a training plan, it's yeah, you can you can go do some big exploration rides.

Jarrad 39:12

Yeah, I was gonna say it doesn't matter if you go do a couple hundred thousand or couple what am I trying to say, couple of thousand meter climbs, and like then the next day you can just lay in bed completely shattered, like Yeah, exactly.

Greg Callaghan 39:24

And like that's like training when you're on the plan, like it's obviously tough training, but you can't just go out and do this massive mission that you kind of wanted to do because you're like, ah, that doesn't really fit with the training, and you'll be tired for three days after. So when the season finishes, I'm like, right, I'm gonna go do the massive mission now.

Jarrad 39:41

Yeah. Does that give you something to look forward to throughout the season of like knowing, okay, like once I get to this point I can go and do these like crazy rides and sort of epic things? Is that yeah, for sure.

Greg Callaghan 39:54

And I quite often, yeah, like you'll just see an event pop up in the offseason. You're like, oh cool, I'll go do that. And I also ride many different types of bikes, and I think that keeps it interesting, exciting for me. So, you know, whether it's a road bike, XE bike, Trials Moto, I've had motocross, moto, enduro bikes over the years, and yeah, you'll then be excited to get onto those different types of bikes, you know.

Jarrad 40:14

Yeah. Is that I was gonna ask you how you kept things balanced, but that sort of I guess answers that question a little bit in the sense of like you don't always ride the Enduro bike or the one particular bike. It's pretty solid mix.

Greg Callaghan 40:28

Yeah, yeah, and I do try mix it up as well because I find if I ride the race bike every day, you know, you'll go suspension testing and you'll set up your suspension for race pace. Yeah. And then you go ride it middle of a heavy training block when you're tired, and you won't be riding with the same strength and intensity, so the bike might feel bad. And then you might be like, oh maybe my setup setup's bad, or blah blah blah. And you can kind of develop bad habits with the bike. So I try to try to be like if I'm on my enduro bike, I'm riding it well and riding fast, and I'm riding it to suit that kind of race setting and mentality. So then I you know, you might take the e-bike, the short travel bike, whatever, and mix it up for for certain sessions.

Jarrad 41:09

Yeah. You do you ever have a second bike that is set up slightly softer? Or you you try and just avoid that altogether and it's like race bike is race bike, and then all the other bikes are Yeah, no, I do for sure.

Greg Callaghan 41:22

Uh like I have a train and a race bike, and in winter setup would definitely be softer. Yeah. But as you get closer to season I try just keep it 'cause those bikes, race, train, and bike are identical, really.

Jarrad 41:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Greg Callaghan 41:33

Um and yeah, it's like this time of year now as the season's approaching, like if I'm on the race bike, it's the race bikes with the race setup.

Jarrad 41:39

Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, as I say, it's it's always interesting hearing about how people balance what's happening throughout the year, what events, where it is, what bikes you're riding and and things like that. Like just finding that.

Greg Callaghan 41:53

Yeah, and I think a lot of people have different approaches. Like I don't know how many people do that, but I think for me it's yeah, it's uh it's always worked well, and it's you know, you throw your leg over that bike and you're like, right, we're gonna have some fun today. Yeah. It's not like, alright, here we go again. You know.

Jarrad 42:06

Yeah. Do you ever think about swapping bikes throughout the season? I know I was speaking with Ellie, I think it was with Ellie, and she was saying I I stick with the one bike throughout the entire and talking more races, but like one bike throughout the entire race season, then it just takes that choice out of my mind. When you go to certain tracks, are you thinking about the style of track, whether it needs to be a a slightly less travel or a slightly more travel or um yeah, I do like to explore the options.

Greg Callaghan 42:37

Like for example, last year I raced the rip mode the whole season, but the first two races I ran Super Deluxe Lyric suspension with a shorter travel fork. And then for the races after those, the first two were Pietra and Poland, so I knew they're not the steepest, fastest, gnarliest. And then after that I beefed up to the Zeb and the Vivid, so I kind of had a a more burly version of the same bike. Yeah. Which was nice. Um I have in the past but torn between bikes, mainly because you're trying to you might have two models that are quite close and they each do different things well, and it's hard to decide which one is is best, you know.

Jarrad 43:14

How do you find swapping out the fork? I know when I've done that, it's always like a bit of a change in like going to that bigger fork, like jumping into the Zeb versus the lyric. Yes, it's way more direct, but I feel like you have to swing off the handlebars so much more. Do you find that or are you pretty comfortable now swapping out those sort of things?

Greg Callaghan 43:35

Yeah, pretty yeah, pretty comfortable to be fair. Um and I think as well, like in that case, uh the terrain was changing as well. So the tracks got burlier, my bike got burlier. Yeah. Just matching everything up to make it work. Mm hmm. Yeah, but like at the moment with the new rock sock stuff, like I've been bouncing between the two set ups to kind of test them both back to back and decide, and yeah, it hasn't really been an issue. Kind of they both do different things well and it's just yeah choosing which suits you.

Jarrad 44:00

Yeah, fair. Um something I kind of want to ask you about without diving into it too deep or as deep as we can, I guess, is the stats and like the the training. And I know you've spoken a lot about like how and and you've mentioned in the past like don't copy me in the sense of a a training program, but I feel like uh you've always been around like Garmin and and those type of people and had uh body statistics and stuff like that. Is that something that sort of interests you a lot or how like how heavy do you dive into those like body stats?

Greg Callaghan 44:39

Yeah, quite a bit. I do like the numbers. Um I'm learning to know when is the time for the numbers and when is not, because you can go down a rabbit hole and you know, like I follow road cycling and you just see all these all these numbers popping up and they're massive, and you're like, Oh, I want those numbers, and you're like, I don't need those numbers, they're not race Ninjero. Like Taly Pagaccio wouldn't be very good at the stage in Canada. Yeah, he'd be unbelievable getting to the top of it, but yeah, you don't you shouldn't try to compete with those guys, but yeah, I d I do like the the body metrics and everything, and I find they help as well because you're essentially building your training plan to be as close to the limit as you can sustain. Yeah. And if you then throw in factors like a bad night's sleep or travel or whatever, and those stresses on the body might tip you over the edge. So, you know, having the garment and these things tells you when that is and kind of gives you a warning before you dig yourself into a hole and maybe get sick or fatigued or whatever. So I feel like it's helped me stay on the right side of that line.

Jarrad 45:42

Yeah. Yeah, like it's definitely interesting following heart rate patterns and and that side of things. Is that what you're looking at mainly, or is it just following the fatigue levels and it's kind of a balance, you know, like it's HRV would be the main one to look at.

Greg Callaghan 45:57

Body battery from Garmin is useful. But there's also the feeling and and knowing as well, like sometimes you're it's kind of in the plan to be tired, you know. And deep winter you want to build up a bit of fatigue resistance, so it's it's planned that you're gonna wake up and feel a bit tired and you need to crack on anyway. Yeah. But as you're getting to the races and you want to be fresher, it's yeah, you wanna you wanna be fresh, you don't want to be waking up tired, and yeah, you kind of have to balance feeling physically and mentally as well because you can get mentally fatigued and and it can feel like a bit more of a chore, so you need to avoid that, obviously.

Jarrad 46:31

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I know with my own training and then with like coaching athletes and things like that, it's like how do I explain it without it sounding dumb, but like the number is there, but then also matching the number to the way your body feels as well. Um because it's so easy to wake up and look at your watch and it's like, oh yeah, you're minus whatever into fatigue, but then you feel awesome. Yeah. And vice versa, like you're you're just into that fatigue level. And I always found that myself is like let's say minus 10, I felt like super bad, but then minus 20, I actually felt a lot better at the deeper I got into that fatigue a little bit, especially in like as you say, that winter training. Yeah, you kind of just learn to push through it, as you say. Like, and that was something I remember uh one of my coaches telling me is like start to match those numbers with the body feeling and then understand less about off the bike and when you first wake up, but then like how it feels once you're on the bike and and matching that feeling then.

Greg Callaghan 47:34

Yeah, exactly. Because quite often you might wake up and your watch tells you you're dead and you get on the bike and after 20 minutes you feel bad starting. Yeah. But after you get a warm-up and you get the blood flowing, you you actually feel quite good.

Jarrad 47:46

Yeah.

Greg Callaghan 47:47

So yeah, it's learning these things, isn't it?

Hardline Debates And Enduro’s Future

Jarrad 47:49

Yeah, a hundred percent. Um one thing I wanted to get into a little bit is uh the like some of these new events that are coming out, like your Red Bull hard lines and and stuff like that. I wanted to get your opinion on that. Just because they're so different, they're so new, obviously pushing the sport. It's a little different to what you're doing on the bike yourself. But what's like where do you see that like in the world? Like I feel like you've been around enough to see a lot of these different events. Obviously, you've you've done a little bit with the moto world side of things as well. Like, how do you feel about some of these events?

Greg Callaghan 48:27

Yeah, I think they're cool, I think they're exciting. I think anything that brings mountain biking onto new people's screens and in front of new people's eyes is a good thing. Um, I think yeah, hardline as an example, it's it's amazing to watch. It's creating good racing now as well, which is really cool. I think that's maybe something that in the early years it was more about piecing a full run, and now it's becoming a race with yeah, guys like Ronan are you know they're fully racing, aren't they? Yeah, those guys are insane. Yeah, so as fans it just gives us even more racing to watch. So yeah, I love it.

Jarrad 48:59

Yeah. Yeah, it's always interesting, like not physically being there, but just like seeing it on TV, like some of the stuff that they're doing is just insane. Like some of those drops and the the bigger gaps. Like there was one in Tasmania that was like a 60-foot gap, which realistically in a race run is not out of the question, but the speed that they're hitting it at and the time in the air is so short because of the speed that they're at, is it's pretty crazy.

Greg Callaghan 49:26

Yeah, yeah, and it's an interesting one with the mind game thing as well. You know, those guys a lot of the in the World Cup season, they're battling each other and they're rivals, but that race they all have so much respect for the course that they help each other and you know they'll work out the speed together, and by the time out the the final people are hitting the jump, I think they have it really well calculated of like, okay, you need to do this, this, and this, and then you have enough speed and and you'll make it over this. And it's cool to see that camaraderie out of them as well.

Jarrad 49:53

Yeah. What's your thoughts on uh that inside line in Tasmania? Maybe it was it two years ago where Jackson saw it on the the live feed that Troy did and then did it, and I know there was a bit of controversy where it was like, oh yeah, like it I think that's where the game changed with those guys from helping each other to right, this is an actual race now.

Greg Callaghan 50:18

Yeah. Yeah, I was kinda I don't know too much about the controversy, honestly, but I yeah, I felt like it was just a whole racing situation really. Um so I don't yeah, I don't know where the controversy stems from.

Jarrad 50:32

I just I just remember hearing a couple of the riders being upset that like they were sharing lines all week and like working with each other, and then a couple of the writers were I wouldn't say upset, but almost frustrated that there was definitely lines being held back. Um which at the end of the day they're racing for money. Um racing to win, yeah. Yeah, racing for to win, there's there's a lot on the line. Yeah. Um but yeah, I just heard that there was like a few people are annoyed that what like the whole thing wasn't shared versus that. But like in my mind, I feel like it's a little different when you're like there's a racing line and then there's like hitting a a 70 or an 80-foot gap. Like there's a difference. Yeah.

Greg Callaghan 51:19

No, yeah, I think that's just a racing line. And yeah, I think some generally when someone's on the wrong side of that, they're it's quite easy to not be happy about it, isn't it?

Jarrad 51:27

Yeah, 100%. Have you ever been in a situation went like that where you've seen somebody do something and had to pull it out in a race run?

Greg Callaghan 51:36

Um yeah, yeah, for sure. There has been stuff like that. Because within Jur you do one practice run, so you you can easily miss lines, but also the track can develop a lot from when you practice to your race. So yeah, you might see someone doing something, or you might hear like, oh, the track has changed, so like that corner you now need to stay high and do such and such. Um so yeah, there's definitely there's a definitely an element of playing it live in in general, I think it's more so than downhill. Um one thing, one story I have from the early days was with Richie Rude in Scotland one year, I think it was 2015, and it was a two-day race, and after the first day, Richie was first, I was second. There was a second between us. Yeah. And we were riding up Sunday morning to the first stage, and we were passing by the like the last stage of the race. And out of the blue, Richie was like, Oh, did you see they changed the tape on that section? And I was like, Oh no, I didn't. He was like, Oh, like that inside line is gone. And I was like, Oh crap, I was doing the inside. It was just it was just two lines in the corner, and for some reason the tape got moved. And he was like, Oh, we'll go and have a look at it, and he showed me it. And I was like, Wow, fair play, because in that moment that was the difference between us, yeah. And like a lot happened in the race, so it wasn't by the time we got there, but like I was like, Oh, fair play, that's uh that's a good show in it.

Jarrad 52:52

Yeah, that's a gentleman play there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, so fair play to him. Yeah, no, definitely. Um before we wrap this up, is there anything that uh you think we missed?

Greg Callaghan 53:04

Uh don't know. I guess we haven't talked much about the current Enduro, yeah. Future of Enduro, that kind of thing. I feel like it's a hot topic. So many people are asking me about it these days.

Jarrad 53:14

Well, yeah, I g I guess dive into that a little bit. Like there's I feel like we're enduro's been around for what 10, 12 years, more now.

Greg Callaghan 53:25

This is his 13th year, I think, yeah.

Jarrad 53:26

Yeah. Um so we've had we've got almost a a full generation of Enduro races now. Um like as you say, you've got like Leaf, you've got Elliot, like there's a bunch of the guys that are coming out of under 21s that are sort of always been in that enduro world um from day one. Like and they're very specific with what they're doing, and like Elliot's just killing it at the moment, and Leaf's on his way up there as well. Where do you see that future of Enduro? Because I feel like it's gone through a bit of a wave and there was a low point the past few years, and I feel like it's coming back.

Greg Callaghan 54:08

Yeah, and I think there's been so many changes for Enduro in the format and the riders, and you know, at the start there was pure Enduro riders that were kind of they'd been racing Enduro anyway, EWS came along, they were ready, and then a breed of downhill riders came in and it kind of shuffled up a bit and things got more serious, and that kind of pushed some of the blind pure Enduro riders out of it. And there was also a time when it went maybe, in my opinion, a bit too downhill, and we got a lot of downhill riders. Whereas now it's it's balanced out quite nicely actually the last couple of years. And last year, in my mind, the demands of the racing was pretty spot on with what Enduro should be. You know, it was physical, it was long days, but it was also every kind of bike skill was needed to do well, and that's where these these pure Enduro guys, you know, shine. Like I think now it would be hard for someone to step from another discipline into Enduro and and be at the top, which is a really cool place to be. Yeah. Um and yeah, from what I've heard, the plans are plans are positive for the sport. There's a lot of a lot of good things in the pipeline, things are moving well, but hopefully it seems like the industry is getting a bit more of a stable footing, so that should start seeing some support come back in. I think that's the key. Yeah. Is getting the support, especially for riders like Elliot and Leaf and you know, this new breed of Enduro riders that uh to the people not in the inner circle of Enduro maybe don't know well enough, in my opinion, and you're William Brody's and there's just so many that deserve the limelight and deserve the support that uh yeah, hopefully the industry can kind of come back in and um put put support around these riders and and help them to get even better. To gr help it grow, yeah.

Jarrad 55:51

Yeah, because I feel like with the way let's just call it the politics of the sport um has changed. I feel like there's been so much limelight directed to back towards the downhill. I feel like XC's always had its own light shined on it with the Olympics and all the rest of it that they do. But yeah, there was a period where and I guess you're in the the main light of that is uh like when they had the big uh like recap videos and the instant like after the race videos and all of that. I feel like that is where it'd be sick to get back to.

Greg Callaghan 56:28

Yeah, absolutely. And I think like Elliot Heap is the presenter this year. Yeah. And like last year there was no presenter. So I think even that already is a big step forwards, and he's a great character. He's been at the top of the sport, he's also hilarious. Yeah. So I think that'll inject some good life into it. Nice, which is which is really cool. Um so yeah, I think I think things are moving in the right direction, and it's it's good to see.

Jarrad 56:49

Yeah. How do you feel with like a lot of the YouTube channels popping up from the writers? Like I know Jack had his, like, there's a few few of the writers are getting into that to help bring that limelight back in.

Greg Callaghan 57:02

Yeah, yeah, and it's quite unfortunate. Like it's it's so coincidental, I think, that we lost like the lost, it sounds like they but like the you know the change of the guard, let's call it. The change of the guard and like Jack, Charlie, Dan Booker, Jesse, Melamed, like a lot of guys that brought a lot of eyes onto the sport all just kind of happened to retire at the same time. And I think some media outlets kind of jumped on that as clickbait and you know, tried to make stories out of it that it's just it's not. It's you know, I think they all just were happy with what they've done and have and have moved on to the next thing. So yeah, it's it's a shame that we'll lose that viewership, say, but I think it it puts onus on the rest of us to kind of step up and and make the sport shine and have it shine.

Jarrad 57:46

It also gives uh the ability for the audience to change into something else as well. And other people to bring an audience as well. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Greg Callaghan 57:56

Yeah. And a and a chance for the new riders to to shine more, you know, as well, and get get a piece of limelight.

Jarrad 58:02

Yeah, no, I 100% agree. It's uh yeah, I'm pretty excited to see where it goes because it's I feel like there's there has been a big change in the guard, like even in the women's side of things, like um like with Ella and then uh Ellie, there's a lot of L's there.

Greg Callaghan 58:19

But Simona and Nadine and Melanie Pujon is back this year. Yeah. Like, yeah, the women's fields are gonna be so good this year. Yeah. It's really exciting. So yeah, and I think a a really good step this year as well is the open racing being back. I think the years where there was the most buzz around Enduro, I think that was a really big part of it. You know, having fans could watch the racing and then be like, oh, I want to do that, and go and do it. Yeah. And people from brands as well could come and see where their bikes were getting ridden and raced and experience it and and be a part of it, which is really, really cool and really important, I think. And the fact the open racing will be doing the full course. You know, you can like Morion last year was sick, we had some of the best tracks, so you can go and enter that race and ride all those tracks and and have the challenge of trying to finish four big days on the bike. So I think that's uh a really positive change.

Jarrad 59:08

Yeah, I was gonna ask you a bit about that. Is like the participation numbers, like that were so big in the early days, and then obviously as you say, like those numbers dropped off, but there was an obvious reason for that, and it is kind of cool to see them coming back, but like do you feel a big change with that in the in the way that the event is run?

Greg Callaghan 59:26

Yeah, for sure. And like there's so many it's when you like speak to the organizers and Warner Brothers, you realise there's always a reason why things happen. And like in terms of participation numbers, the more riders you have at a race, the shorter the course has to be as well. So like if your first rider starts at 8 a.m. and your last rider starts at 10am on say in the field's not that big, you've only got so much daylight to work with to get that last rider to the finish before dark. Whereas if you can get everyone out in an hour, you have another hour of riding time. So you can have an even bigger course. So there's all these elements that need to be considered. Um so yeah, I think for sure it has changed over the years and it's good to see it going back to it'll be a what we expect would be a big entry on the uh amateur side, but then maybe a smaller field or the same as it has been the last couple of years on the professional side, which kind of gives us more room to do even more. Yeah, nice. Yeah, which is nice.

Jarrad 1:00:28

Cool. Well, on that note, let's wrap this up before they kick us out of here. Yeah. And um yeah, thanks for uh giving us the time to to chat.

Greg Callaghan 1:00:38

Yeah, no, thank you. Thanks for the chat. It's always good to chat bikes, isn't it?

Jarrad 1:00:42

Yeah, bench racing at its best. Yeah, exactly. Cheers, thank you. Thank you.