Joe Wakefield – The Shot You Never See

As the old saying goes, a photo can tell a thousand words, but getting it to tell the story you want is what turns it into a memory. The right shot can make you feel the size of a feature, the risk behind it, and everything happening just outside the frame.

In this episode, I sit down with Joe Wakefield, a Squamish-based mountain bike photographer who moved from England to fully immerse himself in the Sea to Sky riding scene. Joe has built his career by focusing on storytelling over trends, capturing not just the riding, but the people, the atmosphere, and the moments that often go unnoticed.

We get into how he got started, why he loves passion projects, and how those have opened doors over time. Joe also talks about stepping away from social media to reset creativity, and how some of his best ideas come from doing exactly that.

We also dive into what it’s like being behind the lens when things get properly gnarly, the importance of trust and safety when shooting high-risk riding, and the difference between working one-on-one with riders versus shooting major events.

To wrap it up, we talk about social media, printed photos vs digital, dream shoots, and why some of the most inspiring riding right now might actually be coming from places people aren’t paying enough attention to, like adaptive mountain biking.

If you’re into mountain biking, photography, or just creating something meaningful without getting lost in the algorithm, this one’s worth a listen.

Share it with your riding crew, hit follow, and tell us where you want to ride, the next chapter starts right now.

• Get in touch via my Instagram
• Hosted and Produced by Jarrad Connolly

Transcript

Meet Joe And His Path

Jarrad 0:01

Welcome back to the Dynamic Life Cycles Podcast. Today we're sitting down with Joe Wakefield, a squamish-based mountain bike photographer who's been documenting everything from grassroots riding through to some of the biggest moments in the sport. Originally from England, Joe made the move out here to fully immerse himself in the mountain bike scene and has built a career out of not only capturing just the writing, but the stories, the people, and the atmosphere that makes the sport what it is. In this episode, we get into how he got started, the role of passion projects, and how he turned them into real opportunities. We dive into what it actually takes to tell a story through a photo and how he captures the true scale of writing. He also talks about what it's like to be behind the lens when things get proper gnarly. We chat about working with athletes, brands, and events, and his approach to social media and how living in Squamish has really shaped and styled his life. Let's get into it. Yeah, great, great. You get out in the sun today.

Joe Wakefield 1:23

We sure did, and what a unexpected uh like result that was today, because I was fully expecting to drive. So I'm in Squamish, drive to North Van. All I'd heard heard about is these like spontaneous waterfalls that have just appeared everywhere. Shannon Falls is going off. And yeah, I was fully expecting to be down here, like brought all the rain gear, and it was got a santan. Yeah, it was so amazing.

Jarrad 1:49

Yeah, I was quite surprised, like where my desk is here at home, it's like has a window backing, and all of a sudden the whole room just like lit up. Like, what the hell is going on out there? And like turn around and full blue skies, and yeah, pretty wild.

Joe Wakefield 2:05

Some dopamine.

Jarrad 2:06

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So you said you were down doing some photos and some shooting and things like that, whereabouts?

Joe Wakefield 2:13

Um, so this was in light of obviously coming down here. Um, we tied it in a rider that I shoot with a lot, like an extremely young, uh talented rider, Pat. He's Pat Showmist, he's at university here, and he lives in Burnaby. So we took the opportunity to go just hit any of the North Shore Mountains. Usually we go to Seymour. Uh, he suggested Cyprus, and I've not really ridden there much at all. We we ended up on Fifth Fifth Horseman, but like mentioned to you before, we did some stuff previous to that. Couldn't tell you where it was, don't know where it is. Phenomenal, like the builds there and the effort that's been put in. Incredible. So, yeah, we were just up there and did a few shots. Um, it was it was fun. Haven't been on the camera for a couple months now, to be honest. Oh, really? Why why is that? Just um so I'm not full-time as a photography, I work as an uh engineer, so during the winter months, inevitably I go out and do some projects that you can shoot in the adverse weather, and usually it works out quite well. But the people that I've been shooting with have kind of been doing their own stuff at university, for example, and just kind of been like hunkered down. Um and yeah, it's just haven't had the opportunity to go out. Uh I always find that it helps me creatively as well. If I take some time off, yeah, get away from Instagram, social media for a bit, like get off the camera as soon as it's go time. That love is like renewed.

Creativity Without Constant Scrolling

Jarrad 3:44

Yeah, it's gonna ask you about that later on. It's like one of my points, but that's a perfect thing that I want to ask about is like social media and like your creativity and what you see and how you see it. How like obviously everything in that world is influenced by what you're looking at. Do you find some of this like whether it's AI or whether it's just other people's work or or that type of thing? Like, what really drives that creation? Because we can go so deep in this, but yeah, like where would you start with that?

Joe Wakefield 4:21

Like utilising social media, for example, like to uh encourage the creativity?

Jarrad 4:28

Well, even the opposite, like not getting stuck in the the same channel and rut, like you just mentioned, you get off the social media side of things and and things like that. Like, is there uh other things you do to try and create that creativity that's not in the the mainstream side of things?

Joe Wakefield 4:47

I see what you're saying, yeah. Um for me, like I think it's just having time away. I think this is kind of a very personal point of view, but I've always been a daydreamer, I always have been. Like even when I played football as a kid, like I just stand on the field and daydream. But when I give myself that space to think, ideas come to me. Um they can be influenced by things I've seen on social media, for example, like other photographers' work or creatives, but for the most part, if I stop looking at what everyone else is doing, take time away, it allows that kind of like thought to come, and I just randomly come up with ideas like on my phone. Something comes to my brain, I just make a note, and by the end of like these last couple months, I've got a list now where previously, end of 2025, I was like, How do I top that year? Like, how do I do stuff again that's different, stuff I haven't shot? Yeah, and yeah, like come up with a list again now, just in light of not being too focused on it, it's been really refreshing.

Jarrad 5:50

Yeah, yeah, that's a very interesting way to look at it. And I think even myself, like I'm a very visual person and I think about a lot of things and like the writing and the the way you attack a line and things like that, so it's interesting to hear the same way, like for yourself, I guess you are a very like visual side of things. For sure, yeah.

Joe Wakefield 6:11

It's um it helps like more than anything for me. Uh I actually find quite seriously that if I do engage too much in other people's work or I don't know, just doom scrolling is a bad example, but if I'm too much involved in like replication or seeing what other people are doing, it definitely A affects what I intend to do because I'm always like referencing other people, but then I'm not thinking of my own ideas as well. Like I'm very fortunate in the sense that the people there's there's many athletes that I do shoot with, and I'm never shy away if someone asks, but there's like free select riders, and in their own right, they're all extremely creative, they all build their own stuff, like trails, features, and just I don't know if it's by chance or coincidence that I've happened to kind of move organically towards these people to work with just because ideas bounce off each other, and um yeah, we we create some cool stuff, and it's I can't take credit and say it's all my ideas and inputs because they're a massive part of it as well.

Jarrad 7:16

Yeah, definitely. When you say you're working with certain writers and things like that, whenever I've worked with a photographer, especially one-on-ones, I always find it's that's interesting, and depending on who I'm working with and what I'm working with, and depending on the style of writing and what we want to achieve, how do you work with them in the sense of that creative idea? Because obviously, you're a writer yourself, you do quite a bit of writing from what I understand, but do you add to their writing and what they're writing and how they're writing, or do you kind of take that step back? Like, I know working as I say, working one-on-one is very different to working in like an event space or where you can kind of hide behind the event as such, but when you're out there and it's so raw, and I know some of the shots that you've done, and once people start to look them up, like they're pretty iconic shots. But like, how how do you work with that? Like, is that side of being on that side of the camera harder, I guess, than being in front of the camera? Do you do you know?

Joe Wakefield 8:20

Yeah, I mean for me, a huge factor is the people that I work with being patient and giving that space for because I'll be fumbling around, like I'm not in my own mind a professional as for regards to efficiency by no means. Like, I today I lost my camera bag for like five-ten minutes, oh wow, put it down. Just like I'm so I get in the flow state, and all I'm thinking about is like what I'm taking a photo of, and the rest of the world just kind of falls to the wayside, and it's just like the best shots have come as a result of them being patient. A lot of I feel bad in a way, like today. This um my friend Patrick when he's not with me, all he does is just ride trails, ride trails. He's training for like the squamish and juror. And when he's with me, I'm just always holding back and like, oh, can we stop here? Can we look at this? Like, so it's that factor which actually makes more of a difference to me. Just yeah, just them giving me space to work essentially, yeah. Yeah, you know, F round and find out.

Risk Trust And Safety Lines

Jarrad 9:26

Yeah, yeah, I think that's like a from a writer's point of view. I know if I'm going out with a photographer and they're taking their camera, I know that it's not gonna be like a a full-time ride, like hit everything as once and as fast as you can go, type thing. I know that there's gonna be that like almost faff, I guess, of the ride, but the goal of the ride isn't to to get a training ride done as such, it's to get out there and be creative and and work with that. And it's always interesting, and uh I guess a a side question to that is how do you work with your emotions in that situation? Because if they're doing something quite gnarly or crazy, like that ride across the waterfall in Squamish and and stuff like that, which for the rider, yes, it's pretty wild, yes, it's pretty gnarly for them to do, but they're so locked in and so confident in doing it that they have this almost attitude that they can just attempt it and they know what they need to do. But how do you not let your emotions feed into that, or do you let your emotions feed into that to help get them amped up? Because I've had both sides of the con sort of coin with photographers where one guy's like super high energy, like ready to get you going, getting you amped up, and then I've had the opposite where they're almost too calm and too chill, and you just can't get into that headspace. Like, how do you play with that?

Joe Wakefield 10:57

I guess I fall into the latter, but I don't I'm I don't aim to be a depressant when I'm there, but I this is gonna sound extremely cliche, but it's completely honest. I care way more about um the people's like health and safety. Of course, I've gone and shot some photos where people are doing that waterfall shot as a great example, would have potentially been life or death if if it had gone wrong.

Jarrad 11:26

Yeah.

Joe Wakefield 11:27

And that was kind of like that that shot in particular was one of the first um real kind of extreme things I'd photographed. And I thought I trust in their ability, and if they've done this before, that puts me at ease. But um, like today, uh when we were shooting, um Patrick was he's not ridden much because he's been doing in university, he's not feeling super told on a bike, and we pulled up at this feature which he suggested and he was like, This would be great to shoot. And I looked at it and I was like, Man, if you if you're not feeling it, like it makes no difference to me. Yeah, I do not care for you to just that's one thing I make it very clear to people on like would you do this if I wasn't here? Yeah, and if they say like I do I've done this multiple times, I'm gonna do it anyway. Sure, maybe I'll be more partial to being there, but the last thing I want is for someone to a do something that they're worried about doing or B get injured because they want a shot. Yeah, that I really really put down a hard line in the sand there.

Jarrad 12:32

Yeah, have you ever stopped someone from doing a like if they've ridden into it say two or three times and it's like in your head you're like, yeah, we should not be here, like because at the end of the day, if something happens and it's just the two of you out there, like a lot of responsibility falls on you. Like, have you ever stopped somebody from doing an obstacle? Or most of the time it's pretty pretty solid.

Joe Wakefield 12:56

I I've never stopped anyone, but um I trust in their judgment, and I feel very, very fortunate the people that I've associated with they have very good judgment, and they they will just turn around and if it's they're not feeling it, they don't do it, and we call it a day. Yeah, like that is I guess now you say that that's something I've kind of unintentionally navigated towards. Like I don't want to say my circle that I work with, because but they've got a smart head on them for sure. Um, and I have seen people that you know it would be amazing to go shoot with some of these people that are just pushing the boundaries constantly, but yeah, I I don't think I'd feel comfortable in that environment. Yeah, something like Rampage is different, yeah. It's there's no onus on you to essentially deal with the repercussions of something going wrong. Yeah. Um and stuff has and did go wrong, and I witnessed that, and it plays on you, even when you go from a big competition like that to local kind of grassroots stuff. You you think about stuff like that, and you know, I took a first aid course, and that wasn't coincidences. But I I don't want to be in a situation where that arises or to see my friends get hurt, bottom line.

Events And The Squamish Effect

Jarrad 14:05

Yeah, a hundred percent, and that was that was another thing I was thinking about as you were talking, as you started to bring up like the bigger events and being able to not hide behind the event, but when you're at those bigger events, you are solely there to take photos, and there is all of the other people there in the way of like all of the medical staff, all of the event staff, all the other riders. There's like you go to Rampage, and there's what how many people standing on the side of the mountain, hundreds, yeah, if if not thousands, that will play an effect in the environment that's around there if the rider succeeds or doesn't succeed, versus yeah, when you're out there one by one. It's it's just an interesting thought I had earlier today is like how that would go, and like even myself, like knock on wood, like I've been pretty lucky whenever filming. Um, and I always think that with my racing history, I know where my limit is, and I almost kind of pull back slightly when I have a camera in front of me, um, especially if I'm out there one with one-on-one, but it's always interesting. You mentioned some of the other events like Tuldenar and things like that that I know you've shot. How was that? Because I've heard so many mixed topics and opinions and things like that, and and still going down this same train of thought a little bit in the sense of like people encouraging each other to go further and bigger and stuff like that. Yeah, how did you find that event as someone that was capturing it and telling that story?

Joe Wakefield 15:36

Yeah, in my experience, although I was kind of a bystander essentially, like I wasn't necessarily amongst the group, it there didn't seem to be that dynamic of um I don't know what you call it, bravado, uh masculine energy, whatever. Yeah. Um, it seemed to be supportive, and if people wanted to try stuff, there was no like push to do that. Yeah. Um, it was kind of I I guess there's a s you could argue the case that maybe people are influenced, like if you see, you know, five people do something in front of you, like flawlessly, you kind of recreate um yeah, the m the maths in your head almost adds up to being easier. Yeah, so maybe that's something, but from what I saw, um everyone signed waivers, there was none of that dynamic. Yeah, the writers there were top tier. Like I I definitely think they did their due diligence to I'm sure there was multiple other people that wanted to be a part of it that day, and um they didn't make the cut, so to speak. But um, yeah, I don't I I guess I haven't really heard too much about um the general consensus. There's there's obviously a reason why it doesn't continue now. It's probably nothing to do with how people felt about it, but um I thought it was brilliant and yeah, yeah. I one I guess one argument you could make is there was people that came from abroad and it might have been their first time putting rubber down in Squamish. I don't know that to be the case for sure, but um we have a very seemingly a very specific type of riding. Yeah, and I've seen that when we've had people come out um that are like maybe uh slopestyle athletes or racers, and we're all about like especially the features there, it's brake control and being slow to do a feature, whether that's uh say a roll into a drop, it's all about speed control. And a lot of people that seemingly come here, they're kind of like they're used to having speed to do features, and it's a it's a flip side, yeah.

Free Work Portfolio And Getting Paid

Jarrad 17:36

Yeah, that's an interesting, interesting thought for sure. Like you look at any of someone like Remy's videos or all that, and what he does is so impressive, but you're right, a hundred percent of the video is talking about his brake control and and what he does and how his tires and things like that are set up, but yeah, pretty, pretty wild. Yeah, so something that I wanted to ask you a bit about is on your website you talk about doing like almost free photography. Do you do that just as more practice for yourself and things like that and getting out, or like tell me a bit about that because it it seems almost the opposite to what anybody does. Like, I've not really met a photographer that's like, hit me up for free photography, you know, like and obviously there's more to this whole conversation, but um yeah, like tell me where that came from or that idea.

Joe Wakefield 18:30

It's just like um obviously I want to pursue it and keep doing it as like a profession, and um, if I can do it full time, that's great. But for me, it was never about I've never been money driven uh for a start, and I think you're right, it's more about just like keeping time on the camera. Like I've had these couple months off right now, and we went back today and I felt like an absolute amateur again. Like, obviously, I know how to use equipment, but something disintegrates and you need to keep that like muscle memory going. It's I guess it's training essentially. Um but I've always said that like with athletes, I just love going out. There's a reason I do this, and it's purely because I want to go out and take photos of mountain biking. The mountain biking here has blown my mind, and it always will do. So it's just the opportunity to be able to go out and shoot, and I kind of draw a hard line if it's for athletes or riders for their socials, I just go do it because they in they enjoy the outcome, they get images of them shooting at riding, which they might not usually have, and then when it transitions into the world of like, oh, a brand reaches out, we really like this, we'd love to use it for our web or our socials or our advertising. Then I have a rates kit, like I send it out to them, and that's where there's money involved. But I try to really keep that black and white. I don't want my passion to be dictated by like how much bag I'm making, you know. It's yeah, it's never been my priority, it's not why I got into it, and I want to keep that dynamic.

Jarrad 20:06

Yeah, I think that's such a good way to look at it, and like as I say, it's it almost took me by surprise when I'm like, oh, this is kind of sweet. Like, you go out, get some sweet shots. Like, obviously, as you say, like you're still building your portfolio and your bits and pieces and and things like that. Do you find it does lead to bigger things? Like when you're first getting started and into the camera side of things, because you say you haven't been doing it for a super long time at the end of the day. But did you find that that helped just get your name out there and and start working with different brands and stuff? Or yeah, like uh it's not obviously the the drive behind it, but did that open a lot of doors?

Joe Wakefield 20:47

Most definitely, like it's um I mean inevitably it has to start there anyway. Like when you start off, you're not gonna brands don't want to work with you, and you're not working with the best. I shouldn't say the best riders, it's like your friend that you're probably at a similar level to, and just to know I'm a diabolical level rider, so like the people that I actually the people I ride with are pretty damn good, but um yeah, I think like it just just happened to be that way. Um yeah, I don't know, man.

Storytelling Images And Unique Angles

Jarrad 21:16

Yeah, no, that's alright. I as I say it was just uh an interesting thing that just surprised me when I saw it on your on your website. I'm like, that's so sick. Like um, I fully lost my train of thought there, but um I did too. I'm sorry. That's alright. I had so much to say about that point as well. Um oh, storytelling, that's where I was going with that. Is a lot of these photos that you're taking are just not normal photos, I feel like going back to when you're talking about the visualization and and bits and pieces and ideas and things like that, is that something you consciously do? Is look for alternate shots and and alternate sort of angles and stuff. Like I feel like you scroll down Pink Bike, you scroll down any of these other websites and that type of thing, and so many of the photos are the same. Like you look at race photos and they're pretty much all of them are the same. Yeah. But then I there was one and I want to say it was a rampage photo maybe but it was there was like four or five guys there was a silhouette and there was like the rider in the air doing whatever the trick was there was like a guy on a shovel, a guy on a camera like oh there's a whole media team underneath yeah like that type of thing and like the whole cliche like thousand words to a photo type thing but like do you consciously look for that type of stuff when you're out there shooting?

Joe Wakefield 22:46

I guess so I mean I'm I'd be a liar if I said there's not a huge element of luck but I think you make your own luck. Yeah like if you I I I guess like with Rampage particularly there was um I was just everywhere I was just I just always had my eyes out for something um but like that shot it it was just so fortuitous like it's the right time of day the riders hitting the right stuff his team are there like none of that was coordinated. Yeah um but I long story short I definitely do try and look for like different angles or different when you're when you're starting out photography I I would say like um it was thrilling like even just to take the standard race shots and be able to capture something that's how you want it be that blurry not blurry like to get the shot and eventually when you've done it so many times I guess it boils down to dopamine again like you look through your viewfinder and you you're kind of like ah it's I got it but it doesn't it's not hitting those buttons for me and it's just this natural progression where I'm just always craving to look through the viewfinder I'm like oh my god that's the one um so it's just by that process that we just started getting a bit more creative using flashes shooting not during the sun shooting on adverse days snow like um yeah it's just trying to think outside the box in that sense I guess but it's yeah so many factors are just fortuitous.

Jarrad 24:21

Yeah they are so thinking back on some of your photos and stuff like that is there any out there that you're like yeah that was like one of the how I don't even know how to ask this question exactly right but like that may not even be the best photo you've ever taken but like what's the photo that just makes you think like yeah that was sick like was there a particular event or a particular time or a particular like just the way the photo came out yeah like the and it was the most recent one before maybe that's why I've taken time off because I'm like I don't know if I can do it again you know it's uh the one of Patrick Thomas riding through the root ball where there's a big like fallen tree on the north shore.

Joe Wakefield 25:03

Yeah and like I went around um so I'm building something at the minute and I wanted to build this big big stump drop we've got so many big old growth stumps and I looked in Squamish looked all the way up the sea sky for like a month and couldn't find anything came to North Vancouver and I was like I don't know how it works here. This isn't my territory I'm not gonna go like too deep into this I'm definitely not gonna consider building anything but when I was looking round I found this huge tree that'd fallen over and um someone had built like a it wasn't a full trail but like an access under the root ball this is awesome uh I need to remember where this is so like my trail forks is just full of pinned stuff where I just walk around I'm like oh this is cool this is cool this cool and yeah we just went back to it and shot that with flashes in the piss and rain and yeah there's there's nothing to it it's not part of a trail like his stance is so aggressive and it looks like he's going MAC 10.

Jarrad 26:02

Yeah in reality like he was just perched up behind the route he went through the route made a cool position and yeah like I I knew as soon as we took that one I was like that's super special I guess I'm worried now I'm like how do I top that one yeah yeah it's always interesting and and that was like where I was I know exactly the photo because I looked at it today and I'm like that is sick like the way that the light behind just like lights up that whole ball and it's like a little it's almost like he's getting barreled. It's like a portal yeah yeah exactly yeah it's so sick do you find like some of these uh shots and stuff and it's almost the opposite to what we're just talking about but like lose a bit of their specialness because you see a lot of the behind the scenes or do you get the enjoyment because of what you're creating almost like the art of it I guess does that make sense?

Lens Choices That Show Scale

Joe Wakefield 26:57

Yeah for sure no definitely the latter um it's it's cool to like conceptualize something and I've definitely started putting less out now because I care way more about like what I'm making um I I I still shoot grassroots like conjuros and stuff I love that it's like bread and butter it keeps you on the camera it keeps you tuned in and like able to use the camera and the gear correctly but there's something really nice about like it sounds it sucks like today like when we were out we took a really cool shot but because it wasn't moody because we didn't use flash because there wasn't all these like factors that reference say that photo we were both like ah it's it's good but it doesn't quite scratch that itch and uh yeah it's it's just this process that you just kind of have to then to live with a bit yeah for sure um do you ever what did I've written down do you ever like fight the camera in the sense of getting it to look the way you want it to look so and what I mean by that there's so many of your shots that I was looking through that the features look real size which I feel like is such a unique thing in any form of video or photo or whatever how what are you looking for to get that angle because as I say it's so common to hear like oh GoPro effect it's it's way bigger in person like you look at a lot of these bigger stunts that you're taking photos of and they look massive in the photo which obviously means they're triple whatever the size you want to say in person but like it gives that perspective how where where do you come up with the ideas for that like is that just that visualization and and things like that again? Yeah I guess so like I I just really wanted to do it justice because it blows my mind some of the stuff people write down competently like time and time again and I guess a big factor of that is like having a variety of lenses. I've like inv invested in a big range of lenses and some of them are super kooky and random and you know crazy brands that from the middle of nowhere and yeah I guess that's truly something that I have to like think about and like to think about like today shooting this it was this huge rock roll I I can't remember the name of it but it was like this big slope rock and it was ginormous and I did one shot where I walked really far away used like my 150 to 600mm which was like big big lens and it it was cool but in my mind it looked flat like it did not do it justice and then I took out my 10mm fish eye um well not fish eye just wide and it if you get in the right angle like it really looks to how your eye sees it and yeah it's like I it's something I consciously think about a lot. I don't want to do these dis disservice because it's ridiculous.

Jarrad 30:06

Yeah yeah no you're right and as I say it's it's so impressive being able to see the angles and the the styles and it's it's I feel like some of the photos you see like oh yeah like that doesn't look too bad. It's because the rider just looks so comfortable and so competent and and as you say they just do it so easy almost um but then when it's put into perspective and the camera's the right angle and things like that it's like yeah these guys as well the instas like I I use an Insta and I've truly believe that like um some people utilize it to make stuff look way gnarlier.

Joe Wakefield 30:43

Yeah but to an extent you can get footage to look like maybe what your eyes see. Yeah so the GoPro effect I think sometimes I've seen GoPro videos I'm sure you have as well where you're like oh yeah I'm gonna find out where that is and go do it. You get there in reality and it's a big no. Yeah. These some of the footage I see of Instagram like nah I can pass that up I don't have to bother going on location like it is just messed up.

Jarrad 31:06

Yeah. Yeah I think the way that they're able to like warp almost the like edges of the screen and things like that as you say it makes it look like what you actually see is pretty impressive for so do you do you like use these cameras out writing as well or do you not do much like I I did in the past but I I would say recently I I'm gonna say recently the last four or five years I just got over watching POV mm like I feel like everybody's doing POV since like the 360 cameras have become really good really high quality I feel like every second person's got a a POV YouTube channel the same as every second guy's got a podcast channel you know like um and for me the POV is only good if I'm doing racing or if I'm looking to learn a trail I don't really get that much excitement out of it and I think it's because I've sort of ridden and and lived a lot of the stuff that they're writing that sitting on the couch just watching doesn't do much for me. Yeah um I understand like yeah some some of the stuff that they're doing is well above what I want to do now but in a past life I I probably would have ridden a lot of it as well so there's like this I don't know how you want to describe it but like yeah like I watch some of like Remy's stuff is a perfect example like his POV sure like that's impressive but yeah generally speaking now no I don't I don't watch it but then in turn because I don't watch it and I'm not that interested I don't generally take my own yeah um I really do like watching the like follow cams and stuff like that where you can see the rider almost like video game style um or the other option is like having the camera almost pointing backwards and have a a rider f in the camera in front of the rider. Yeah and you can really see their body movements and the the way that they move through the trail I can think is kind of cool.

Joe Wakefield 33:12

I agree. But yeah generally POV with nothing around is I don't know boring for myself but yeah I I think similar to you I've become like extremely I really don't watch a lot of like videos and I don't truthfully engage much with like much uh content on social and stuff like that but in light of the video example like I feel some of the more engaging stuff I have seen is actually with like follow drones as well like if not necessarily the ones that you know some of them now you just chuck up yourself and it follows you and it they're okay but like when you have a real professional like drone pilot FPV that stuff is gripping.

Jarrad 33:51

Oh that's insane like was it and you're sat there on your like chair and like you're doing that. Yeah yeah as I say like that to me is like yeah like video game style POV that to me makes a big difference to what what you're able to see what you're able to understand because you watch the bike kick or watch the bike compress or watch the rider move in a certain direction to be able to get a certain thing um and I think that yeah for sure like that's exciting to watch and I'm sort of hoping they do more of that at like some of the World Cups and and even like Dark Vest that's on at the moment and and things like that where they're doing a lot of those type of drone shots as such it's yeah pretty wild.

Video Trends And FPV Drones

Joe Wakefield 34:36

It's definitely well I mean it's not the future is here but I think yeah it's it's engaging. Maybe it's just because it's something different as well but who knows?

Jarrad 34:44

Yeah we're tuned to always just look to like the next thing that grabs our attention probably yeah definitely so with your writing and and things like that do you feel like that changes a bit of the aspect of of what you're looking at and do you look at features as a writer before you look at them as a photographer or do you find it the other way so if you're out like riding do you look at something like oh this would be sick to shoot what what comes first in your brain like how would I ride this or how would I shoot this?

Joe Wakefield 35:15

Definitely shooting like I to my own accord I like I've still got a lot of work to do with shooting like I don't feel like I've made it so to speak but I can comfortably say I'm a better photographer than a biker. Okay. Like so I will definitely um yeah like I'll I'll go for a ride and I'll spot stuff like just look on the trail oh that would be cool that would be cool um and then for the most part I ask a rider that's way more competent than myself if they would be interested in riding it and I will shoot it. Yeah my track record with biking isn't good. I crush a lot but yeah it's it's cool I I'm not unrealistic in terms of like I know what I could ride and when I like I've built some stuff and generally I will only build something if I feel like I could ride it. Yeah I'm not unrealistic like sure I'd love to get the most ridiculous photo of a rider doing the most insane thing but I don't want to be like I don't want to make the call on that one. I leave it up to the riders to like I'll suggest an idea and then if they want to do it great if they don't then that's fair as well like yeah I I don't my whole idea of what is capable of people here is is always being thrown the curveball. Yeah like what I think's possible is sorry let me rephrase that what I think is not possible every day gets told to me that it is in fact possible if you live in the sea sky crowd and you ride a mountain bike.

Jarrad 36:53

Yeah I was gonna ask about that because obviously with your accent you're not from around here neither am I so but the the seeds of sky squamish influence on what people are able to do is just so insane.

Joe Wakefield 37:10

Yeah like how does that change your view and like as we mentioned like you've gone and shot some pretty big events and like as I say you're at rampage like essentially the the biggest event of all when it comes to this type of riding when you're out there in in the sea to sky like does that change your view when you go to some of these events and vice versa like yeah I think like it always feels more raw to me here it's it feels more homegrown like people build their own shit they go ride their own stuff like I love that of course rampage is a spectacle and people are throwing caution to the wind in doing stuff but yeah it's always felt like just special here there's there's a reason why I've been like so drawn to it and gripped with like local riders and everyone it's so diverse here people have all these different backgrounds that get thrown into the mix as well like one guy shoe with Austin has a strong BMX background like Patrick has a strong racing background um Macho has uh like a surfing background you can kind of see it in the way they ride and there's it's really cool to have just such a mountain pot of disciplines and um different types of people here. I guess you get that rampage as well you get guys with motor backgrounds and stuff but yeah yeah it's just it's always felt for me personally like more impressive the stuff that people do here. I guess there's no there's no no limits as well like you're not gonna get a guy building a wobbly skinny over a waterfall at Rampage like it's yeah just stuff that exists here and probably nowhere else.

Jarrad 38:48

Yeah. Do you have you shot sort of more I think what do I call it like non-event space stuff outside of BC or is it pretty much you're only outside of BC or see the sky if it's more of an event like do you know what I'm trying to say like most of like everything is here.

Joe Wakefield 39:08

Yeah. But yeah it's just a community I guess where I've met people it it mainly centres around here and I like that I do like that rampage is really the only time freeride fiesta in Mexico there's like a few times if it's like big events really appealing to me but I genuinely just enjoy like being out with friends on projects here. Yeah. That's where I feel like it's just it's just fun and creatively you can you there's no limits there.

Jarrad 39:39

Yeah definitely one thing I wanted to touch on and we kind of I guess did a little bit at the beginning but the social media influence and and you said you kind of hit and miss sometimes when you're on and off that how like you sort of mentioned you kind of stay off it a little bit in the way of like trends and stuff like that but do you find that that changes I'm trying to think how I ask this question but like Yeah like if if you're working with a writer or if you're working with certain people and you see certain obstacles like how does that change and do you ever feel like you're just shooting for Instagram or shooting for social media versus shooting the obstacle that will then end up on social media.

Joe Wakefield 40:27

Yeah is there like some form of influence of like doing it for the gram you know like there was for sure yeah and like I mean you probably experienced it as well like it's so easy to get hooked with that um for sure back in the day like when I was trying to make a name for myself that's kind you have to you have to use those channels to promote yourself so it's uh a necessary evil so to speak but I I've the most excitement I've had is with a a friend of mine James like we went to Cam Loops and I took a photo of him like doing his first real good like Suey uh jumping Cam Loops at the dirt ranch bike ranch sorry and he printed it out and put it on his wall and it's like I thought that was awesome. That meant way more to me than some brand sharing it and it's just like gone one minute neck gone the next you know it's like off into the EFER they when it's that I guess that's going off on a tangent here I guess that's why I pursue a lot of like print because it's it's tangible it's it's there it's people can enjoy it in their own time it's not just this like fleeting bullshit that we get on social media.

Jarrad 41:42

Yeah it's it's definitely an interesting one and like I feel like I've had almost the opposite of that where I've shown up in a magazine or shown up in I don't know randomly on a website and a little bit different for me because I don't really get told that it's going to be up there like obviously I know that well especially at a race I know there's photographers and and things like that and then all of a sudden you're just like flicking through and you're like oh that's that's me. So I I get that a little bit in the sense of like yeah it's kind of cool but like it's interesting when you've almost created the art or like done the photography and and then someone actually takes it and and runs with a little bit and and makes it a physical object I think is yeah it's kind of a cool feeling.

Joe Wakefield 42:29

I guess on the flip side like with yourself with this do you feel like I feel like you would do it anyway right regardless social media is a a great avenue to put it out to the masses but like well I guess the broader question is would podcast did podcasts happen before people could use socials like were they happening Yeah the way the way I describe podcasting is it's talk back radio on demand.

Jarrad 42:54

Yeah like we have movies on demand TV on demand we have whatever music digital whatever however you want to say that you can play whatever song you want whenever and and podcast is just the evolution of talk back radio into yeah like the the digital world I think yeah so like I personally feel like I've got a good relationship with social media but at the same time I don't like the having to be forced to like post on it um and and I yeah I definitely spend too much time on it there's no doubt about that but um going back to the podcast yeah like uh and I've said this a million times like I I do this selfishly because I want to talk to people like yourself whoever athletes blah blah blah and as that comes around like people want to hear that which I'm stoked on because when someone comes up and they're like oh yeah this is sick like I'm like oh cool like you Actually listen to it and you're quoting things that either myself or the guest has said in the podcast, like that's a really cool feeling. Yeah. Um, but at the end of the day, I'm like, yeah, if if there was no social media, I'd still do it.

Joe Wakefield 44:15

You've got it so dull as well, like the format of essentially just having a conversation, like it matters a lot just speaking to people.

Jarrad 44:23

Yeah, I think it it definitely brings out a lot of lot of different things, and a lot of like a a good one was when uh Ellie was on and she was talking about at the top of the the race run, she's listening to like classical music and so many things that people don't even think about or don't even go into depth with and I think that's yeah, such a cool, cool thing that comes from the podcast for sure.

Brands Constraints And Editorial Editing

Joe Wakefield 44:50

Yeah, for sure. It's it's it's raw, right? Like as much as I could have pre-planned anything I say to come in here, like I'd never uh recall it. So it's just everyone has um I don't know a mask or a facade, like especially in the realm of if they're professionals, racers, um with brands, for example, they have put on a face, yeah. But at least like here it's just it's just a conversation, it's it's not hiding anything, it's well you it's the best.

Jarrad 45:18

Yeah, you almost can't after talking for whatever it's been 45 odd minutes, it's like yeah, like you get to a point where you can't hide from that, and that was something that I wanted to ask you about is like the difference between working with athletes to working with brands to working with events, like how does that change? Because obviously, working with a brand specifically, they want it to look a certain way and they want it to feel a certain way, but they've also employed you based on your skills and what you've done in the past, so like they can't just tell you how to do it, and then you have to follow the guidelines because you have your own style, like yeah. How does that work in that aspect of things? Like, you know, where I'm going with that, you know, and then an event in particular might be like, Alright, we need shots at this particular obstacle, or like, do you get to work sort of free range within a framework?

Joe Wakefield 46:10

I guess, yeah, I guess like um in a perfect world, it would be amazing, and it to my knowledge, maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot here. I don't think it's happened yet where someone's like, I love what you do and your take on it. We just want to you know, let you do your thing and we'll work with you because we like what you do. Rampage was um an example of where I was consciously told to edit in a way that was editorial, and that meant nothing to me. I didn't like I'm not been in that world for a long time, and I was like, Well, what does that mean? And essentially it's um I guess it's making images true to reality, like you're not putting you're not making it warm, you're not making it cold, you're not changing colours, it's just matter of fact, is what it is, and of course I did it because that's what was asked, but it felt a little bit soulless for me. Um well maybe maybe not soulless, but it just didn't allow me to put my like what looks good to me. And um if it I don't think if it if it wasn't an event of that caliber, maybe I wouldn't have been too happy about putting that out in a wider world because it at that point it just looks like everyone else's and um yeah that that was a strange experience when that happened, and uh the guy that told me to do it like way more established than I am, and probably will ever be. So I was like, okay, I I trust what you the information you're giving me here, and yeah, it's just it's just different different strokes of different folks, it's a style that it's all a learning curve. I'll be the first to admit, like I it's still always a learning curve for me, and it never stops being one, and yeah, I've can't remember that bit.

Dream Shoots And Adaptive Racing

Jarrad 47:56

Yeah, no, definitely. I think like, yeah, it's interesting to hear like you still have some sort of free range, but there is like definitely times where they're like, Alright, we need it shot this way, that way, blah blah blah. So yeah, yeah. So before we wind this up a little bit, the biggest thing that I'd like to ask you is like dream shoot, like who, where, what, when, like I know it's in the back of your head because everybody thinks about this type of thing, whether it be like myself, like I've got like certain guests that I want to get on in in the future or work with, or um yeah, like for you have you got something in mind, or is there something coming up, or like what what would that look like?

Joe Wakefield 48:45

There is something that I believe is coming up, and I don't know if it's confirmed, but there is rumoured to be a local event of some serious calibre that's happening on Cyprus later on in the year. So, like to be put in the mix to shoot something like that would be wonderful. I hope you catch my drift here.

Jarrad 49:07

Yeah, no, I'd yeah, like you you don't have to say it, I can say it that and I think it's somewhat common knowledge that there's a possible ra not rampage, possible hard line at Cyprus. Um I'm happy to say that I know that there's something happening there, but at this point there's a lot of backwards and forwards with um let's just call it the politics of the environment. Um so I don't know if it's fully confirmed yet, but yeah, like that would be a pretty wild event.

Joe Wakefield 49:41

Like a first. I I guess like being able to shoot first, ladies' rampage, for example, great example. I felt so privileged to be a part of that and to be able to document that. Um yeah, just kind of like firsts and to to move with the way mountain biking is going. New events they're being putting on, like up and coming riders, just to be at least in the mix. Um yeah, as far as like a dream rider to shoot with, it's uh I don't think there's any one particular person, but I really do love the cross disciplines. We see it a lot like around here, people with BMX backgrounds to just ride the bikes in a less conventional way than I don't know, just like I guess free ride is unconventional in the sense that people were doing tricks and stuff, but um yeah, just someone that's well, I mean, the people I work with are great. I'm really happy with them. Uh and there's no pressure. I feel like if I was asked to shoot with like a pedestal athlete like this at the best of the best, oh my god, the the I'd be crushed with trying to like do the best job I could and the nerves and whatever. But um yeah, I don't know. It's I I just an event like Hardline would be fantastic if it goes ahead and just to support um events that go on locally. Yeah. Uh at the minute this is a slight offshoot, but I've had like the last year, the one event that took me by surprise that I will persist in attending and shooting was at Crankworks, the adaptive racing. Yeah, that blew my mind, and I'm not just saying that. Like, I I went into the last crankworks a bit like, oh, I I don't know what's gonna stimulate me here. So I was just oh I'll just try and I'll go to all the different events and just see what takes my fancy. First time I'd seen the adaptive racing, it was incredible. Those people go like they're insane, insanely fast. All the bikes and the uh what they call the bowheads, and yeah, those kind of they're all super bespoke. That stood out to me like head and shoulders as something that was impressive, and I love to keep doing that.

Jarrad 51:52

Yeah, and they're not scared either. Like the yeah, like one of my friends, uh I don't even know what that is that she has, I think it's spina bifida, which is where you're sort of not fully formed from the hips down. Um, like that from birth, she's grown up with that and learnt all about it. She walks around with crutches and things like that, but she was on the Olympic or the Paralympic team for skiing, um, and like full side topic here, but it's like, yeah, she ended up being on the Paralympic team, downhill skier. Whenever I've gone skiing with her, I'm just like, there is no way I can keep up with you, and like I don't find myself a bad skier, especially in the resort side of things, but she was just like insane, yeah. And then moving here uh quite a few years ago and then seeing them in the park, like the the people on the on those like bowheads and and any of the adaptive stuff is just like mental what they ride down, like half the people can't ride down it as a regular person, let alone like what they're doing on a four-wheel type machine.

Joe Wakefield 53:00

Filthy Ape, Oakley Hip, like seen it all. Yeah, it's nuts, and I presume it's still in its infancy with the technology. Like, mate, I know the bowheads are exceptional. I've yeah, I've seen that, but I feel like there's probably way more coming that will give riders way more access. And yeah, it's just that has just blown my mind, and I want to keep documenting that. The the loam hustler, the event, there's um like a an adaptive aspect to the race there. Yeah, sweet. Um, I'm just gonna go out and shoot that because why not? Yeah, it just interests me. Um, yeah, it's just it's something it just keeps me interested in like and the people. The people is yeah, yeah.

Jarrad 53:44

Yeah, the stories that the the people have is like insane, and it's one that I feel comes up so often in the sense of like, oh, if you get hurt, like how are you gonna continue with life? And it's like, well, as long as I can still breathe and I can talk and I can look around, then like I'm sure something will happen and you'll be able to move on.

Joe Wakefield 54:04

Like, people are out there doing it, yeah. Like it's getting it's getting wild as well. Like, I've seen you you may have seen it on the North Shore as well. I I think I was right in Frome, and there was this group of people, and it like some of them had leather jackets, they weren't like dressed like mountain bikers because they weren't, but they were on these one-wheels, like these full suspension one-wheels.

Jarrad 54:25

Oh, I don't know if I've seen this. They were sending it like the all the electric one-wheel type things you're talking about.

Joe Wakefield 54:30

Yeah, so that's like a go-kart stood on it facing forwards, yeah, and it's a singular wheel that's gyroscopic, and they were going down like rock rolls and they were doing jumps on these things, yeah, and it was like this really small little tight-knit community of people. Yeah, but just they diversify, but they were using the same trails. Yeah, and there's a couple guys on the North Shore that ride unicycles pretty extremely yeah, yeah.

Jarrad 54:53

There's there's a video oh what was it? It might have been like one of the early New World disorders, and there's a full unicycle section in the in the video. I don't know if you've seen this or not, but he rides, I'm pretty sure it's the Barad Bridge, he rides the handrail along that, um, and a bunch of other things, but yeah, like the unicyclists are a yeah, their own breed all together.

Joe Wakefield 55:21

It's so weird and kooky. Yeah. Just diversifying on like what we have. Everyone's nuts around here, yeah.

Jarrad 55:28

Yeah, yeah, it goes back to what we were saying earlier where it's like the Cedar Sky has its own level of just like insanity.

Joe Wakefield 55:36

Yeah, it's pretty damn special to be here to like document that. I mean, you're a part of it, you're part of the insane trying, trying anyway.

Jarrad 55:46

So, yeah. Um is there anything you think we missed? I feel like we got through touched a lot of subjects, but um I guess no, not really.

Joe Wakefield 56:00

I mean, I I feel like I would have liked to offshoot with some more questions about yourself. Like, I don't know much about your background, obviously you're racing, but like did you come here for biking?

Jarrad 56:11

Yeah, originally. Um yeah, came over with just looking for a bit of a different scenery and sort of at the point of like not finished racing in Australia, but like started to get worn out from racing in Australia. So came here for a bit of a change, bit of a holiday, working visa type thing, and then obviously fell in love with the mountains. I'd never skied before I moved here. Interesting. Um, like yeah, very rarely saw snow in Australia. Um, there's only a couple of mountains that you can ski at. So sort of fell in love with that, and then yeah, sort of work opportunities, things like that, and then it's been almost eight years now, and like full full citizen and and everything like that. So 2018. Yeah, yeah, middle of 2018. We're the same though, yeah. Yeah, so obviously the COVID years sort of changed a few different things, but being in the bicycle industry, it just got more hectic compared to what it was, but my life didn't really change. I just kept riding bikes and just having fun, and um I was one of the lucky ones that my day-to-day job stayed much the same. Um and then yeah, just yeah, continued living, and yeah, and here we are now.

Joe Wakefield 57:36

So it's a funny one that it's like something I really beat around the bush with is um for like a lot of my family and friends. A lot of my friends live in Dubai, like um my family live in England, obviously. COVID was tough, and I have to really pump the brakes when I speak about that time because for the majority of the world it wasn't a fun time. No, here I just got to ride bikes and ski. It was so insular, yeah. And everyone, for the most part, seems to be fit and healthy and didn't make a it made an impact, but it it wasn't as dramatic as other places.

Jarrad 58:12

Yeah, I would say, and not to dive too deep down this hole, but like, yeah, like yes, we were very lucky here and and the way that things happened and the way things rolled out and and all of that, but I I had a lot of friends that were let's say heavily invested in the racing side of things, whether it be anywhere from beer league all the way through to like international. And to be honest, it was more the beer league people that got affected because their weekly routine and their personal identity was all thrown out the window. So, like everything from like the reason they train, the reason they get up at a certain time in the morning, the reason they sit on a a trainer, the reason they go to the gym, you know, like their whole life revolved around going to a race once a week on a Tuesday evening or a Thursday evening or whatever it is, and all of a sudden that's thrown out the window, and they're like, Oh, I've done this for ten years, what do I do now? That to me was like the the downside for like locally, I think, as you say, the the public health was was pretty good, like everyone got it, but it wasn't as deadly as people said in other countries.

Bike Industry Waves After COVID

Joe Wakefield 59:32

But yeah, you being a really good person to ask as well. Sorry to cut you up there, but like being with Norco in the bike industry, like how do you feel? Because I I was just getting into biking around COVID, so for me, I didn't really have reference to pre with the industry, but as soon as that was over, like brands like Kona were doing buy one bike, get one free.

Jarrad 59:58

And do you think that's kind of like recovered, or there's still some big yeah, it depends on who you're talking to, and I don't know. I've got a bit of a a controversial opinion on the failing of the bicycle bicycle industry, if you want to call it that. And the reason I say that is I'm very data-driven, very much like okay, like you sold X amount of bikes here, you sold X amount of this, you sold X amount of that. Like, let's look at these numbers and use them as like whether you want to call it historical fact or or whatever, at the end of the day, that's what the number was. We don't need to triple that order, and you also need to look back into like let's just say the last 20 years of bicycle industry, like every time it goes in a wave. There's there's always a wave, like literally, especially at a retail level, but I think the retail level was the ones that suffered in this scenario at a higher level, and sure, like I think there's a lot of stuff that went on behind the scenes that I'm not even aware of, but um there was a lot of things that were like okay, if brand X that normally orders a hundred bikes a year and they're fifth in line versus brand Y that gets I don't know two thousand bikes a year, all of a sudden brand Y is now putting in six thousand bikes, and if the brand that's like normally fifth in line gets bumped to tenth in line, they've then got to put in a bigger order to then put themselves back in priority. Interesting, and all of a sudden it became this like sort of flex on each other to get into a priority line, versus if everybody was like, Okay, we're now selling three times the amount of stock if we all work through this together as an industry and not bump each other out of line, like, yeah, sure, manufacturing's gonna take time to keep up. There's so many other aspects that go into that, but I think the issue was so many people overinflated the number that they were looking for just to keep their priority in line. Yeah, and then obviously, as the wave comes down and settles out, there wasn't enough sort of push, whatever, from the consumer side of things to keep uh on top of what the demand was slash what was being presented by the manufacturing, and everything caught up, and then there was a a massive sort of I guess under demand oversupply, yeah. And now we're starting to see that balance out, and even on Norco side of things, like it's you're seeing a positive change forwards, but then on the flip side, you look at like brands like YT or GT or any of these brands that are closing down, and I think unfortunately, it's the way that they must have looked at their data and the way that they tried to use the money that they were gaining and use the popularity that they're gaining to change the world. And well, luckily enough for and I can talk on Norco very, very lightly because of my position, but um they've been around for 60 odd years, they've gone through so many of these changes, so are specialized, so is Trek. Like specialized as what 50 plus years, Trek is somewhere in that 40 plus year range. All of these major companies have been around for a long time, giants in the same world sort of age group. These companies have lasted a lot of shit, and that's why I think they're so successful now, versus some of these younger companies that have been around 10 years, 15 years, they haven't gone through those sort of waves to accomplish it.

Joe Wakefield 1:04:14

So I'm sure there's so much truth in that. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense for sure. Yeah, it's uh I I I truly do wish the best, and you know, it it works in it's cool just to have that like diversity, and I I do see it coming back. There's like small local um whistler to Vancouver brands that pop up and it's like I love that. Yeah. Uh gearboxes or these bespoke little things uh as an accessory to all the larger brands, and I truly do hope that like yeah, it it it springs back and um it can keep it well. We guess one thing that we do overlook because we're in it, for the majority of the world, this is pretty extreme. Like mountain biking in general. Yeah.

Jarrad 1:04:57

Um you're talking about like one percent of the population that is actually riding a mountain bike, and then when you look at it like that and you're like, Well, there's like only a handful of people that can do certain things, you know, like yeah, and the company are diversified, like the bigger brands that do road bikes or commuter bikes, like yeah, yeah, there's just spreading the field a bit seems to have been successful in terms of like resilience.

Joe Wakefield 1:05:24

Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's a really cool take on it. It's uh yeah, something I just wasn't too aware of, but I heard on the back end of it, like shit's hitting the fan. I was like, wow, this seems like the worst time to leave my secure job engineering to pursue mountain bike photography.

Jarrad 1:05:39

Like, yeah, I would I would say it's it's getting better. Um as long as the brand is looking at what they're doing and how they're spending money, and yes, like a lot of things are being tightened up, purse strings are tight now, but I think it has to be, and as a whole, I think it's becoming more profound. Professional and yeah, so I think it's pretty cool in that sense.

Joe Wakefield 1:06:04

Yeah, I'm ready for a boom again.

Closing

Jarrad 1:06:06

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Alright. On that note, thank you for coming in and spending the very much.

Joe Wakefield 1:06:12

Thank you very much. It's yeah, it's it's crazy. I've usually got like so much to speak about. Hopefully, I was good.

Jarrad 1:06:19

That was perfect.

Joe Wakefield 1:06:19

Like as soon as I put these headphones on, and that thing's poked me in the face. I'm like, oh my brain just went to shit.

Jarrad 1:06:25

No, no, you you you were good. No, that was that was really good. But yeah, thank you.

Joe Wakefield 1:06:29

Yeah, no, I appreciate it a lot. Thanks for having me. All good.