Dynamic Life Cycles
Dynamic Life Cycles
Riding Through Time with a Pete Stace-Smith
Curious about the evolution of cycling and the industry’s key players?
I sit down with Pete Stace-Smith, a legendary figure in the cycling world, for a deep dive into his 40-year journey in the industry. From starting out in a local bike shop to becoming a driving force at Norco, Pete’s seen it all. His stories give us a front-row seat to the massive shifts in cycling culture, the industry’s defining moments, and the unexpected turns that shaped his career.
We get into the groundbreaking innovations that transformed mountain biking—from the early days of BMX to the game-changing introduction of disc brakes and suspension. As Norco’s bike division product manager, Pete had a firsthand look at the experimental nature of bike design in the ‘70s and ‘80s. We also explore the evolution of riding styles, from the rise of cross-country racing to the birth of freeride, and how different landscapes and tech advancements pushed the sport forward.
To wrap things up, we look ahead at where cycling is headed. Pete shares his take on the future of bike tech, the role of e-bikes in urban mobility, and how bikes are shaping the way we move in cities. His lifelong passion for two wheels and his commitment to the industry make this conversation a must-listen for anyone who loves cycling.
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- Hosted and Produced by Jarrad Connolly
Welcome back to the Dynamic Lifecycles podcast. We kicked off the year with our first episode featuring Jason the Greer's Haycock, and if you haven't checked it out already, I'd definitely recommend it. But today we have another heavy hitter in the cycling world, someone who's been shaping the industry for decades Pete Staysmith. Pete has been living and breathing bikes since the 70s, where he started in a local shop in 74, became co-owner in 76, and then made the jump to Norco in 79, where he spent over 40 years driving innovation, marketing and event sport. He played a key role in product development, launching factory teams that helped define modern mountain biking, and was on the front lines of some of the biggest shifts in cycling for BMX, mountain bikes and freeride.
Speaker 1:Beyond his industry impact, peter has been a true adventurer. He's pedalled across Canada, raced marathons and triathlons, tackled Moab more than 50 times and clocked thousands of miles on his adventure moto. In this episode we dive into his journey, the evolution of the sport and the wild stories that come with a lifetime in the industry. If you've enjoyed this episode, please drop a five-star review. It helps more riders and industry folk find the show. As always, hit me up if you want to chat. Alright, let's get into it. All right, pete, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing really good. Thanks. I've already been from a ride today, so the day's only getting better.
Speaker 1:Whereabouts did you ride this morning? There's so much snow on the ground.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm lucky because I'm about a block and a half away from a local park that has about a 5k trail loop all trails so I just block and a half on some sketch sidewalk and then immediately onto the trails and had an awesome ride. It was in the pitch black so it was a night ride, but I mean, I got lights, so my dog doesn't care, she's keen to go at any time she loves it.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the snow, for sure she loves that too. The trails weren't too icy like packed in, not at all.
Speaker 2:They were like actually super good grip. So you know it's probably still to come when it gets sketchy, but right now it's just compact, it's beautiful yeah, yeah, we uh, we went snowshoeing just the other day and it was same thing.
Speaker 1:I can understand what you mean with the fresh snow on the ground and it's like just soft enough just to add a bit of grip yeah, yeah, cool.
Speaker 2:Where did you snowshoe? Uh, up on cypress, right, that's pretty. Yeah, did you get a view? Is that night or day?
Speaker 1:uh, up on the night there and and it was with the lights and things like that, and mom and dad are visiting at the moment, so it was pretty special and magical for them Nice.
Speaker 2:Could you see Vancouver from up top there?
Speaker 1:No, it was actually more of an inversion almost, so it was quite clear sky. But yeah, the clouds would cover in the city so you could look up and see the stars. You could, so did your mom and dad groove on that. They did. They loved it nice and got a hot chocolate from the lodge and things like that so living the canadian dream yeah, yeah, as as australians that flew over from 40 degree heat so beautiful, it was a bit of a shell shock, I think, for them perfect, that's.
Speaker 1:That was a nice changes yeah, yes, yeah, um, I actually don't know where to start with this, because you've done so much and seen so many things in the industry. I think the first thing is I want to ask you about, when you got in the industry way back in the 70s, how that looked in, everything from the retail space to, I guess, like you owned a store for a few years there. Yeah, what, what did that look like? Where did that start?
Speaker 2:well it started. I mean, I was a shop rat like initially it started with. I've always loved bikes and I used to ride bikes through the neighborhood and even on the local trails interestingly enough way back then just an old three speed that was locked in one gear and drift around the trails. But I started at a local shop and started working there and then had an opportunity a couple of years later when one of the partners it was two partners wanted out and I was able to, with the help of my folks at that time, buy in and buy half that shop and jump in and you know, and then within a year or two we were still growing. So everything went back in the shop.
Speaker 2:But I knew that I wasn't going to be partners with my partner forever. But we were had in our mind that we were going to start a second store, or at least I had it in my mind that, yeah, we would start a second store. So I was already looking at locations and this and that. And then an opportunity uh came. Actually a question came to me from our norco rep saying hey, if you know anybody interested in a position at headquarters, in a buying position, can you know somebody. That's good. Yeah, I don't want to poach some of your staff, because that's always hard when a distributor poaches a retailer. But uh, think about it and I kind of went yeah, how about me?
Speaker 2:yeah and then like he's like you know, oh yeah, but anyways we put it all together and, honestly, I'd also just been asked by my partner's dad if I ever wanted to get out of the business that he wanted to buy it in. So it's 100% family.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm like let's move.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. It was all done in two weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, the timing of everything just stacked up totally perfect and I started at Norco two weeks later.
Speaker 1:Yeah okay, yeah, that really answers a lot of questions in the back of my head, because I'm like not very often do you see somebody that's worked in the store, then bought into the store, sell it so quickly because it was only a couple of years. I think it was what 74, 76 to 79 yeah it was only a few years yeah but, um, you know it.
Speaker 1:Just it all lined up and, like I said, I did not have that in my plan, but two things got asked within a couple of days and I went, oh, this could work, and it was a move that I've never looked back on yeah, it's been fabulous and, to be honest, I've like I'm just finishing up, or just finished up 40 years, basically 40 years with narco yeah and it's been an amazing career because it's just been a great company to work for and I was able to make some internal moves up to the company through the years and, um, it's just been, it's like a family yeah, you know, yeah, and a good family, and yeah, and like I've been here for almost 12 months now and even I feel that at the level I'm at is like you see Alan come in and obviously you worked with his father and things like that.
Speaker 2:I sure did.
Speaker 1:It's always very much a family-friendly environment as much as it is a business, and you have to understand that some days there's hard decisions and I get that, but they are very friendly in that sense. Right, it's quite a quite a good business to be part of.
Speaker 2:And like no different than here where you are, Jared, I'm sure not every day is like the most perfect day.
Speaker 2:Like there's shit days at head office too, and you know like there's industry changes or supplier changes or quality issues or something that just totally wrecks your day and wrecks your month even. But, um, but, overall, um, you know, I mean I was really lucky that 33 of those 40 years I worked for one fellow whose name is Jim Harmon, who was, you know, initially my boss, a VP, and then he went on to be the president and, um, he was always good. Like he says, yeah, you can bring me the worst problem in the world. Just also maybe come thinking about a couple of suggestions as to how we get out of this. Yeah, and then let's talk and yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:It's funny. You say that because when I started as a, an apprentice motorcycle mechanic, the first thing that I was ever told by the, the owner of the company and, as I say, like the owner of the store they had three of the biggest stores in sydney um, one of the first things that he ever told me is anytime you have a problem, I don't care if you come to me with it, but come to me with an answer, whether it's right or wrong right and then some idea to discuss yeah, exactly perfect, and it's like it's.
Speaker 1:It's interesting hearing that because I've never heard anyone else say that and for you to that it's.
Speaker 2:It's kind of it kind of opens the door to like you're not trying to shoulder the problem a hundred percent and go. Oh no shit.
Speaker 1:What the hell am I going to get out of this?
Speaker 2:Right, it's like, okay, well, we could do this or this, but then also in discussion some other, you know, work your way out of it.
Speaker 1:So I guess, moving into Norco and things like that, you moved into the sales customer service side and then from there up through what marketing and that side of things, or was it more yeah?
Speaker 2:My initial role there was actually in what's called inside sales, which was like a counter sales, which we don't actually have anymore. But dealers would walk in and go, oh, I got a list of what I need and you'd like, you know, take the list and make the order and send it out to be picked while you're bullshitting with these guys, and then the order would be picked and they'd take it and off to their shop. So you know almost more like a lord cool kind of thing right now.
Speaker 2:I'm feeling yeah but that sort of ended up where it was quicker to have the orders entered and, and you know, entered and sent in and they'd be ready for pickup. Most dealers don't even come into headquarters anymore like they just order it.
Speaker 1:That's right you know.
Speaker 2:So, uh, but within that role. I was actually only in that role for about six months and I loved it. I actually knew all the norco guys before I came, because we'd been a buyer, like a dealer, of norcos for years prior to that. So I kind of knew all the guys anyways, yeah, and even the guys that I ended up working with right alongside.
Speaker 2:I ended up knowing them, but, um, an opportunity came to move up to um a buyer position, and initially that was in aftermarket parts so you think of any part that gets bolted onto a bike. There's, there was an accessory buyer, which is you know, stuff that you don't necessarily need, like grips or whatever baskets. But then there was parts for things like chains and derailleurs and cranks and anything that you need to run a bike, and so there was a parts buyer and an accessory buyer and I moved into a parts buyer position and then that morphed into also buying parts for all the bikes we built in Canada at that time and we had a branch called VEET Industries, v-e-e-t, which stands for Very E economical transportation.
Speaker 2:burt started that and, um, we were building at that time about 20 or 25 thousand bikes a year wow in canada, not actually welding the frames, but bringing everything in yep and assembling all the bikes there, including all the wheels and all that so yeah that morphed into buying product for that, whether it was spokes. You know, there's about 50 or 60 parts on a bill of materials for a bike at that time probably.
Speaker 1:Now it's about four times that, yeah, but um, so we would buy bikes and have them like, slot them into an assembly order and when we could do it and what we could build and yeah and I'm just thinking because I I've worked with santa cruz quite a bit over the past few years and that's their business model right now is they ship everything individually into the states. Yep, they build it up right down to putting the decals on the forks and all sorts of things. Yeah, how did you guys go about that?
Speaker 2:in in the factory there was it within like yeah, the veet originally was in our building, but then before I started it got moved out to well, initially down into port coquitlam and then out to, um, sorry port, moody initially, but then out to langley yeah and the plant was in langley pretty much the entire time through my whole career until it actually ended up sort of winding down not that long ago yeah and um.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we would have the parts shipped in and you know, keep in mind that was sometimes from Europe or Asia or USA or Canada, like wherever the source we were coming in from and bring them in and and then slot them into production and of course there's always something missing. So you're like got to put that aside because we can't build it. We're missing the saddles, or something.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. So, yeah, yeah, it's, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize that that was something that you guys had done in the past yeah, that veet actually, over the course of its um lifetime within our company, built more than a million bikes and built more than two million aftermarket not only two million wheels for those bikes yeah that built about another million wheels for aftermarket. So yeah you know, like right here, when somebody comes in on to need a replacement, whatever wheel. We built aftermarket wheels and we built about a million of them over the yeah, so we built about three million wheels and a million bikes over over those years.
Speaker 1:How many people do you know? About 30, about 30 people?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, and it was actually an interesting story about the staff there, because back and I think gosh, I think the timing was about 84, 85 the first Vietnamese boat people came to Canada was, uh, like a um kind of a when people land and they get citizenship and they get supplies. Well, we ended up hiring about a third of those, that first group, and they're amazing workers. They're amazing people first. They're amazing workers. They're amazing people first. They're amazing workers.
Speaker 2:And whenever we needed somebody else, it's like, oh, my cousin or friend is looking for work and they bring them on and these guys would outwork us all and we'd have, time and time again, we need a position. We'd hire some I'm going to say this may sound racial, whatever, and we're going to hire some white dude and the guy would last like two days on the line and go screw this, I'm not putting on cranks for the rest of my life, I'm out of here, and he'd storm out and the guys would go, wow, well, I got another cousin that's looking for work or a friend or whatever. Yeah, and we had some employees there that had been there, like at that time they'd been there longer than I was there, like yeah, I mean and even fast forward another 20 years. We have some employees that retired after doing 30 years or 35 years with a company installing cranks or whatever. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I make it sound simple and I remember being at a Christmas party once and talking to one of the guys and again, we knew them well and they're good guys and I said you know, I really totally respect what you do, but I'm not sure I could do that. I'm not sure I could come to work every day and install 300 cranks a day on a bike and watch it go down the assembly line it was a full assembly line, just like a car assembly line and do that day after day. And he goes. Yeah, that's the problem with you white guys, and we all we had a laugh, of course because he goes. Yeah, he says what's wrong with that work and he goes I'm paid well, I have great benefits, it's safe, I can come to work, I can afford an apartment here, my family's here, my kids go to school, um, and then he stops and he hesitates and he goes and nobody's shooting at us it's, it's a very real and he'd come from a place where yeah all of those were not available and people were shooting at them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he goes. Yeah, that's the problem with you guys you don't even know how good it is here. Yeah, and I went, so busted, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, that's completely true. Like we've got a fuka that works down the back here. Brazilian Yep. He was showing us a video the other day of recent footage of people getting shot at in the local town that he grew up in. Right, this is so gnarly yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know I mean you're recent here, recent in the big picture. But you know people that live here. They just truly don't appreciate how good Canada is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and they'll bitch about everything, like whether it's politics or this or that or taxes or whatever, and I just go yeah yeah, nobody's shooting at us. No, it's a pretty safe place to live medical and a bunch of other things are pretty good here yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny I have similar conversations not often because I'm not back there very often, but whenever I've gone home and it's like you see the people that you went to high school with that still live there. They married somebody from high school and now they've got kids that are now going to the same school that they went to when they were kids and they they just complain about the place they live in.
Speaker 1:It's like, well, guys like get out get out and see the world or enjoy the place you live in, because it's obviously a great place, because you're still here, sure, and it's like this revolving door of just like the same complaint over the same complaint yeah, yeah, so I can fully fully understand what he was talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when he says that yeah, you bet.
Speaker 1:So I guess, uh, as you, as you started growing through the, the buying and then the bike division, bike manager process, yeah, um, what were some of the changes you started to see? Because I feel like in that late 70s, early 80s, there was some massive progress with mountain bikes and and things like that and I feel like everything from like index gears right through to suspension, that was almost without calling it the heyday of mountain bikes. I guess it was probably one of the funnest periods of mountain bikes because there was so much new invention absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:It was actually super exciting and around that time is when I transferred into the role of actual bike division product manager. So at one time and for about a 15 year period, I was kind of the the big guy at norco even though I don't ever like to say that regarding bikes. So every final decision regarding the who was the supplier of the frame or or complete bike, um, what the specs was, what the retail price was going to be targeted for for the dealer, you have to back that all up to, like you know, distributor costs, cost and then raw costs and all that then say, well, what can we spec to meet that cost? Um, so, right down to specifications like what tire you're choosing and what pedal you're choosing and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So there was um at, you know, and it wasn't solo, so there was people also within the bike division helping, that there's advising and a lot of yes, backwards and forwards chat but you're right on the technology and it's amazing because sort of early there the biggest change was BMX bikes and it's like because when I left retail there was no BMX bikes you know, prior to kind of I'm going to say like 79, 78, prior there was, you know, 10 speeds. You know Drop Bar, mostly like originated in France, you know so Peugeot or Lejeune or Jetain or whatever.
Speaker 1:That was the good stuff, and then Crescent and all these other brands, but 10 speeds, drop bar 10 speeds.
Speaker 2:Then BMX bikes came along and that was like the rage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and again, it's not just we sold a bunch of BMX bikes.
Speaker 2:We did sell a bunch of BMX bikes, but we also had the finger on the pulse of what people wanted there and so there was like inexpensive bikes that any local shop could get way out in the tulis. And you know I've heard some of the other podcasts where guys that you know have been on these early, like spitfire bikes was their first bike or whatever. Yeah, right up to you know, at a high level, the aba and and um racing. And then we produced like super high-end tig welded, tangay tubing, butted like race bikes that were absolutely top drawer, like the best you could get, and in different sizes and different. You know, on our team at the time, which we started a factory team, yeah, we had small people and big people, so we did like a mini and a regular and a zl, which was the zl stood for zablotny long and that was for pete, that was custom built for pete, zablotny and a bunch of other big yeah, tall riders and, like it was again, we were leading edge on those bikes.
Speaker 1:It was super fun time yeah, so how, when you talk about that sort of thing and building into that era, I'm trying to remember. I just watched a really good documentary on like the mountain bike how it started and things like that and um all down in california there, and I'm completely mental blanking on that yeah, murren county, you know yeah exactly how did that information slash, sort of technology transfer up into here?
Speaker 2:because there's always this kind of, I guess, battle of like you guys started mountain biking, but we made it better well, like you know what, I don't even care about all that, because it's just better for everybody no, so you know and I think we were I mean, we were for sure after I'm going to say after murren county and the breezers, the downhilliser, like the old converted hubs, three speed hubs or band brakes or whatever we were after that.
Speaker 2:But we were early here and you know, there was like we were like early on, there was people riding here and I remember taking a what was it? Floval Flyer or Cost Cruiser it was a USA 24 race bike Sorry, 26 race cruiser, it was a usa 24 race bike 20, sorry, 26 race uh cruiser and having the frame pulled out and a dropout hanger welded onto it and putting a drailer on it. And again, that would have been probably like 82 83. So it's not like I wasn't already thinking the same thing and it's not like I'm saying that, but what I'm saying is there was people up here thinking the same thing that didn't know anything about what was going on in Marin County.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was more. The point of the question is it's like obviously you guys are on the same coastline but so far apart that you're not always seeing the same information like you do today. Like if somebody in the other side of the world does a whatever triple backflip, I can see it almost immediately versus back. Then it's sort of like whatever you see comes through the, the newspapers or whatever relevant media, or if there's mail sent, or something like that, I guess yeah I mean early on it became apparent.
Speaker 2:I mean suntour was the derailleur of choice back then, suntour and shimano at a lesser extent. But suntour um, pretty quickly got onto like triple cranks with super low gears, long range derailleurs. I mean I even have a triple pulley derailleur at home, which is trippy because it's really like what the new derailleurs are now, with a long cage so that as it pivoted back the extra bar with a pulley would take up the slack you know stuff like that, and there was all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2:But our suppliers out of Japan, you know, at the same time when they're getting demands from California, would get demands from us. And so we both, I mean we all progressed the whole industry progressed. And it was exciting times because there was, you know whether it's, you know, double wall rims, rims, or you know cantilever brakes to like straight, you know straight brakes and then on to the like you said, the first disc brakes and whatnot, and there was a lot of changes through about a 10-year period.
Speaker 1:There are a lot. Did you find talking about disc brakes? Did you find there was a lot of influence coming from the motor side? Um or not super?
Speaker 2:not really like interesting, I mean I guess that was all going on but not really Like the brake companies that we were like initially dealing with. Like I mean I have again a prototype still in my workshop of a Dicomp disc brake and like Hayes was probably one of the original guys that got it right and could make a strong disc brake that was bike specific. But again Shimano and SRAM and all these guys followed pretty quickly after that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they're not really moto sort of companies, they're bicycle specific and such so yeah, it's always interesting, like obviously growing up.
Speaker 2:Probably the only moto transfer over was we did a bike early on that had tomaselli levers and tomaselli was a moto company, so they're actually like almost the same level that's used on like a trials bike or a motocross bike that we used on an early mountain bike okay a little like a higher end bike, yeah, and it was um but pretty, but it became.
Speaker 1:I mean, there was some people, obviously marzocchi was yeah was um a motorcycle based company and whatnot, but yeah, I guess the suspension probably had a bit more influence from that world, more than, like, your disc brakes.
Speaker 2:Obviously the, if you want to call it a gearbox is external, yeah, versus internal, yeah, um there was a lot of when probably not unlike other industries there was a lot thrown at the thrown at the wall, yeah, and you know 10 of it stuck. Yeah, there was lots of weird shit that like, all right, you know, we'd go to interbike and there'd be, you know, 600 or 800 exhibitors and you just walk by a booth and go yeah, that guy, that guy won't be here next year, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but again, if you poked into every booth and look, there'd be something pretty cool that you could, you know, either adapt or buy or use, or, if it was changed, it might work better for our use or whatever. So it was.
Speaker 1:So I guess and this is I was going to talk about this later on, but it's a really good question while we're talking about it what did you see really separate the mountain bike from to be what it is so like? Obviously there was, like the, the derailleurs, the disc brakes, suspension, fat tires.
Speaker 2:yeah, okay yeah, I mean mountain bikes. Did you know, when you look back even now, like they started out with, let's say, a 2.25 or whatever tire? Almost immediately, and you know, I think the access of what you could do even if it was full rigid on a mountain bike right away, versus anything that you've had in the past like a road bike, was instantaneous. You could instantly look at any fire road or any gravel road and I mean we rode like up mountain highway and up and up and up to the access and had a beer at the top of the peak. Back in, like probably about 1984, 85., you couldn't do that on a road bike. No, gravel bikes weren't around then.
Speaker 1:Back then you couldn't do that on a road bike. No, gravel bikes weren't around then. So you know, back then it would have been what a 19 or an 18 mil tire, even narrower maybe.
Speaker 2:Uh, no, oh, you mean on the road bike. Oh yeah, like 21 was big yeah, yeah, exactly yeah, um yeah, 700 by 21c, but I mean, even back then it was almost more 27 by one and a quarter or one one eighth, yeah, I guess, yeah, it would have been full imperial.
Speaker 2:Yeah, way back then too, yeah, yeah okay, and serrated steel rims, which don't work good in anything, especially when they're wet. Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah. So so mountain bikes opened up like just huge potential and like I was really lucky in that, I absolutely loved bikes and I absolutely loved mountain biking and so like I'm like anytime something new. It's like I want to try that tomorrow, yeah, and like I'd I'd be keen on trying it and then passing it on to somebody else to try or whatever else. And okay, it's been really fun that way.
Speaker 1:What was some of the highlights of the things you've tried like? Good question, where do we start with that?
Speaker 2:well, you know, you think, think of mountain biking, like right now somebody can walk into a store and buy a bike that is just super dialed, even for 500 bucks or a thousand bucks or five grand or whatever you know. But I mean initially things like suspension, front fork, you know, disc brakes, like we were going through on rim brakes. We would go through a set of pads on a weekend.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it's so muddy here and you're riding If you're riding lots, it just mows them down and, like you know, you lose all your power. You'd throw another set of brake pads in at the end of the weekend. So, whereas you know, like going to disc brakes and finally, wow, you could get a season or half a season out of a set of pads. Holy smokes, yeah, mind bending, you know, and same with with. We'd actually run in the muck so much and ride so much in the winter.
Speaker 2:We're lucky here versus lots of other parts of canada that don't really get snow. I mean, we have it now but we don't really get snow. So we could ride all winter here. But it's going to be muddy, right, as long as you don't mind wet and mud, it's going to be good. But the same brake pads as they're trying to grip the rim are just mowing the rim down and we'd actually just carve the rims right out until the rim would fail from the brake track. It would just go right through the brake track until the tire blows the brake track off yeah, and I guess that's I.
Speaker 1:Not that I was able to feel the difference, obviously in the mountain bike world, but especially on the road bikes, when the road bikes went from rim to disc yeah, just the quality of the wheel. As an alloy wheel the quality difference was massive, so I could only imagine the difference on a mountain bike going from a rim brake to a disc brake because there's so much more load on those wheels yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean probably 90 of the big stoke on that was just the braking control, because, again, rim brakes, just you have no control. You start into some shoot and you pull it on. You got nothing for the first 20 seconds.
Speaker 2:You're like holy shit, yeah, and then it just goes to full lock or whatever you know, whereas you know I mean disc brakes are kind of like cars you don't when the last time you're worried about your car stopping or not stopping yeah, exactly, so yeah, interesting so disc brakes are cool, I mean even telescoping seat posts, because, again, you know, there was a time when we added quick release seat posts to everything because you could actually drop your seat to descend, yeah, and then you'd, you know, put it up to go up a section.
Speaker 2:But you know, when you get like the trails around here that are up and down and up and down, there's a compromise. So you end up, ah, screw it. You either put it at three quarters and just ride it and it's too high for descending and too low for climbing. Or I remember the first telescoping seat post and friend, friend of industry, friend of mine, who was a super weight weenie, shows me this and I'll go. This guy's name is Mark Jordan, showed it to him, but he's uh, he's like Pete. I can guarantee you, if you try this, you'll never not want to ride with one again.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm like that's pretty bold words, man and cause, especially from a weight weenie which I'm'm not, but he was and it's going to add, like whatever, a pound and a half to your bike which in some cases is more than 10 percent of the bike amazing right, and and, and, anyways. It like history because it was like oh my god, why did?
Speaker 1:how could I not ride with this?
Speaker 2:you know and you don't. It's so you take it all for granted now, because I probably changed my seat height 50 times on every ride.
Speaker 1:Now, yeah, 100 times.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. You don't even think of it to pop it up, even just for 20 meters, yeah, exactly, and then drop it again.
Speaker 1:You know so and that's like I think that's. I'm just thinking about that now. It's like I I remember watching, and I don't know if you remember glenn jacobs at all, the trail builder yep, um, I remember him saying when they were building, I think it was for cansairns, maybe for the world champs there. He's like I'm going to build a cross country track that they have to run a telescopic post on.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:And and sure enough now, I don't think there's a cross country bike that doesn't come out with it For sure With a post like that, yeah.
Speaker 2:So things like that. I mean it's been. Honestly, I just look back and go wow, the bikes now are so cool, like I mean they're just so good. You know, just start checking off all the whether it's index gears, I mean even the SRAM versus Shimano, uh, you know, I mean now going to even electronic gears like for crying out loud, you know.
Speaker 2:But telepost, disc brakes, dual suspension, front suspension, all that, it's just everything is added to the ride. Dual suspension, front suspension, all that, it's just everything is added to the ride. And you know, for some people at the high end level, like the world cup or the race level, or even just, uh, even a weekend warrior, it's made them faster. For the average consumer, it's made it safer. It's the bottom line. They're probably riding at the same speed, but they're in about a 20 or 30 percent better safety zone yeah, you know and not even not even realizing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that bike is saving their ass yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:So so, um, tell me a bit about all the different factory teams, because I'm of two minds with factory teams and I know if it's that economical to have a race team, and obviously norco have just kicked off their downhill team and things like that, and right put a lot of money back into that. So I'm gonna be careful with what I say no, but we probably have similar thoughts, garrett, but um, but you, like, started a lot of the factory teams through the years that you're at norco.
Speaker 1:How? How did that come about and what was the reasoning behind that? It was that part of that type of thing yeah, good, good questions.
Speaker 2:I mean, the first factory team that we sort of officially started was a bmx team and that was back in early 80s. Yeah, and again it was, um, it's, let's get some of these riders we're already at the event supporting the event, so let's take some of these riders and give them a bit more support, especially the good riders, to sort of show our product, show that, you know, people can race this product to a high level. And we had, a like in BMX land we had a factory team and we had a factory support team and again it was just all grassroots, mainly west coast, because that's where our head office is out here, mainly west coast. But it was amazing, super good, got into like. The next actual factory team we had was, uh, we did have a cross-country race team in the early 90s.
Speaker 2:That was again sort of I'm going to say, bc cup, canada cup level, like bc cup, mainly again western Canada focused, same kind of thing. We're, you know, going to a few events. We'll commit to going to half a dozen BC Cups, but we'll be there, we'll support these riders and whatnot, and we would use those riders for sure for input, like, give them some of this product. Give them some tires to try. Okay, we're going to spec our you know TNT race bike next year.
Speaker 2:Yeah spec our you know tnt race bike next year. Yeah, you know, here's three sets of different tires. We need to know your feedback on what works well for your terrain or conditions or whatever you know so we would use those guys and they were great, like super good, you know, probably still at a level where we're well below a world cup level like these. I mean, they're good riders. They're still way better than any of our staff as far as speed and horsepower and everything else.
Speaker 2:But you know you put them if you drop them into um one of the big usa races or a world cup, like you know, top 50 or top 100.
Speaker 2:So you know what I mean like they're not going to be placing.
Speaker 2:But um, then that sort of changed into the gravity team and gravity slash free ride.
Speaker 2:So our downhill slash free ride that those guys really helped us because we were, I'm going to say, that's where norco became, for sure, an industry leader and that could just be me talking, but I'm pretty sure if you asked other people, yeah, we were an industry leader, being based near the shore. Here we were building bikes that were hanging together on the shore when pretty much all other bikes keep in mind that they just finished about a 10 year trying to go lighter, lighter, lighter and lighter and then that bike would show up on the shore and blow the head tube off right away. And so our bikes were never light, but they were durable and, um, they were hanging together and so we'd. You know, when whistler gravity park started up and everything else, every time up there we'd see somebody walking down the slope with a blown off head tube or a broken bike or this, and that whereas our bikes weren't failing yeah and so um the, the free ride team, the gravity team race team was again bc cup, local um.
Speaker 2:But then that rolled into the free ride and the free ride again there was no real. At that time crank works was not just starting, but you know what I mean, it wasn't really a thingankworx was not just starting, but you know what I mean, it wasn't really a thing. So it was more just like these guys would go out and shoot with guys like.
Speaker 2:Digger and the North Shore series, and then people started seeing these bikes and what people were doing on the shore all over the world going holy shit, this guy's going to ride off this 10-foot drop or a teeter-totter into a drop, or you know whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you see, guys like leachy and all those guys way back in the day, yeah and wade and all those guys like they're.
Speaker 2:You know there was a whole bunch of of like world class free riders downhiller, slash free riders, very talented riders that were based all within about a 20k circle of where we're sitting right now yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:So I guess as a complete sidestep here, moving over here, I grew up racing, and in the racing world, not much in the freestyle world or the free ride world, if you want to call it that right. When I look at the dynamics of the north shore, do you think that had a big play in why there is so many free ride versus races here in the sea to sky area? Is that?
Speaker 2:well, I think I mean again for every like. If you look at racing, racing is a pretty quick pyramid. Yeah, there's the top 10, there's a top 100, top 200, and after that you're kind of a nobody. Yeah, like I mean, you could be, you could be the best in your area. If you want to show up at a world cup, you won't even qualify. Yeah right, even though you might, you could be the best in your area. If you want to show up at a world cup, you won't even qualify. Yeah Right, even though you might, will or are the best in your area. Whereas free riding is just buddies riding.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And like that's the best part, like I was never really a racer, so that was just my absolute vibe was let's just go for a ride, let's go check out a cool trail, cool trail, let's good get good at that trail. And whether it was here or whether it was squamish or whether it was out the valley, you know, burke was our local mountain above our, our building and would give you a good spanking anytime you wanted it. People don't realize burke is a technical mountain.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's a lot of technical out there, sure sure, but you know, but then whistler mountain bike park, um, you know, was local to our drive, whatnot. So you know, we were, we were able to have access to that, and lots of people, sure, there's people that are into racing and I, I, I applaud racers because they're not me yeah and no, no, and I love the passion and I love that they're racing a clock and have at it.
Speaker 2:In other words, I think it's amazing and there's some very good racers and uh, but you know myself, and for all my buddies and a bunch of our staff and everything else.
Speaker 1:The riding, just riding, was what it was about yeah, and that's I think what I found when I moved here was the competition.
Speaker 2:Vibe was different is that right yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, it wasn't about racing yourself down the mountain. It was almost, without making this sound like a testosterone fight, but it was almost more of like, as you say, you're going for a ride with your mates and you're egging each other on to be better. Yeah, and it was quite fun. Um, in, in the nicest way to say that, without, as I say, without it being a race as a competition, sure, and it was uh.
Speaker 1:And then when I sort of looked broader out, it was sort of like until you got over to the east was where you saw a lot more of that racing vibe and for things like that and obviously the landscape plays a lot into that and the way I think a europe influence also because you know, europe probably wasn't into free ride as much as they were into racing yeah and again, you know, props were props to do.
Speaker 2:There's some extremely fast people coming out of europe and would be coming into the east coast and gain east coast guys racing in europe. So you know the eastern guys, they're way more focused on a clock than they are on hey, let's go ride. Like you know a teeter-totter in squamish and a skinny line.
Speaker 1:They're not into that at all pretty much as slow as you can ride it, correct, correct? So it's, it's quite funny. There's a a story right at the beginning of covid, uh, kim steed, who I'm sure you you know quite well, uh, and then we were on, uh, what was it? Boundary, I think it was. Anyway, obviously a very technical trail, lots of wood on it, quite steep, not a very good race trail per se. Um, one morning he came in uh, to the store and he was telling everyone he just got the kom on strava without fail. There was, there was myself, uh, at quite a high level in australia, there was an italian gentleman who was quite high level in italy, and then two or three others that same sort of background. Anyway, without fail, the next day, without any of us talking to each other, we all went out there individually and blasted down it.
Speaker 2:Trying to beat that time. Yeah, how'd you do, jared? I ended up with the KOM that day.
Speaker 1:But it was quite funny because then the following day Kim went out and he's going to laugh at this when he listens to it. But I have a sneaky suspicion he cheated on the course to get it back because he lost it by about 20 seconds and then he went back and got another 20 seconds on the four of us.
Speaker 2:So he made 40 seconds different from his last time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not Kim, he wouldn't do that. No, never, never. But it was quite funny and, thinking about it, we ended up having to have almost like a truce agreement that we wouldn't go back and race it, because it was like a week into when all the restaurants and everything closed down and no one wanted to go to hospital. So we're like, all right, we need to calm this and then in a couple of weeks, when this all blows over, we'll go back and obviously three years later at all, it never blew over, so it was.
Speaker 2:Uh, it was quite fun yeah, yeah Well that's agreeing you're a racer, yeah, and, like I said, I applaud that because people that are racers, you're, you're competitive and it's a good thing. That's you know.
Speaker 1:You know I'm saying that positive I mean, I agree there, I've learned some amazing things from racers um, I'm just not a racer yeah, but that and that's the thing is like and that's yeah, it was just like an interesting and obviously you seeing all of this and um having the teams and then talking about how the gravity team sort of morphed into that, yeah, that sort of free ride team yeah and how that sort of changed is always interesting because obviously, as mountain biking transitioned from xc only into their whatever you want to call it, that sort of lycra downhill period, into maybe the sean palmer period with the baggy, how that transition happened and then the timing of the free ride movement happening and yeah, obviously, yeah there's, there's a lot of external influence on that and how different areas break down that.
Speaker 2:The one mix that was kind of between that that bridged, that was our trials team.
Speaker 2:And that was an interesting story of even how that happened. Because we were opening our brand new facility, which is still current, our head office in Port Coquitlam, like our world headquarters for Norco Bikes, and it was a brand new building. It was a building we're gonna have a grand opening. So we I said, hey, I'm gonna hire, we have a local there's a local team here, team goat, a trials team to come out and do a display. And we had one of the guys out and he said what we could really use is like if you could give us a couple hundred skids, we'll stack them in different styles. You know we'll do a hop from here to here perfect yeah, anyways so we did all that in the parking lot.
Speaker 2:The staff were there and whatnot, and some guests and whatnot, and it was really rad. It was super cool. These guys did a great job and it was and we're watching this going. That's super cool. And jim, that guy I spoke of earlier, goes. We should hire these guys, I'm in and anyways. Uh, within like 24 hours after that, we had a meeting with them and it's like, hey, we'd like to actually, because they didn't really have any sponsorship.
Speaker 2:It was just four guys that were having fun doing this yeah and we said, hey, we'd like to put together like a factory trials team, like you know, give you some stuff and no problem, like, but we really want to ride our bikes. It's like, well, no problem, but what we'll do is we'll give you one of our standard like I think it was a nitro at that time, a hardtail race bikes. We'll give you one of those in a small size which is probably pretty close to what you're riding. Try that, and then we'll custom build what you need from there right. So, about two weeks after that, uh, yeah, the nitro is actually better than the bike we're presently riding on, which was custom built for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, anyways, we got them onto production frames right away. Yeah, and that's where, and ryan leach was signed there, and so you know, I mean again, that's a whole. You could make a whole podcast on ryan leach, and probably should, yeah, but uh, that's when we signed ryan and, um, you know, fast forward, like he was still riding for us 23 years later yeah and here you know another.
Speaker 2:I'm off shooting again here, but think through all the people you know in racing and everything else and name how many people have raced for the same company for more than 20 years yeah when we started this, we came up with about seven or eight names, like whether it's not racing or or written for yeah, so whether it's a hans ray or whether it's like wade would fit into that, whether it's Tinker Juarez, whether it's Ned Overend, ryan Leach, jay Hoots, and we only came up with, like I said, about seven or eight names, and two of them were guys that rode for Norco for more than 20 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's funny you say that, because I see that not only in the racing side or the athlete side, but in the whole company. Like you have Grizz uh, like steve, you have amazing yeah, the amount of the amount of people that are 25 plus years in the company, yes, um, and then I think that goes back to the lewis family. Obviously there was a period where they had sold part of the company out and now Alan Reed buying it and things like that it's it's quite amazing, how, how that?
Speaker 2:yes, yes the most fun story about tenure I know I'm getting off on another tangent here was do you know Chris Hennessey, our export sales manager okay.
Speaker 2:Chris was working. We were down at Interbike trade show, the biggest trade show in North America at that time, yeah, and you know this would have been probably I'm gonna say maybe, I don't 2010 or something like that. So you know we're people know us like we're. We have bikes that are hanging together and whatnot. We're showing bikes and this bfa, which is a big fat american sorry if I insult anybody here wanders in and he's all like narco, who are you guys?
Speaker 2:and I'm like, oh well, we've been around for a while. We've actually already been around for like 40 years or something.
Speaker 2:Chris is talking to him, so and the guy goes never heard of you like you know, like uh, so, and then he tries to bust chris like he goes. So did you just start yesterday like working the trade show? Chris goes. No, I have actually been working for these guys for 17 years. And he looks around and he goes. I think think I'm the youngest employee, youngest tenure or the shortest tenure employee in the booth right now and the guy's like oh, and he couldn't win that one either, and he's kind of huffs and like storms out.
Speaker 2:But like at that time he looked around and there was like Chris or there's like guys like Steve or, you know, skip Swain at the time the sales manager, or you know Bert was there or Jim the VP or president you know what I mean there or you know burt was there or jim the vp or president, what you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:there was, everybody was 17 years or more in the booth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this is impressive and this guy was trying to bust his chops. He'd never even heard of us. I'm like, well, you might have just crawled out from underneath a rock, because we have been around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you need to open your eyes a little bit than yes, small town, yes, yeah, no, that's yeah, as I say it's. It definitely has that vibe and it's interesting, everything from athletes right through that.
Speaker 2:It's it's kind of like that. Did you know? By the way, did you know chris is moving to your homeland? He is he is.
Speaker 1:Um, it's funny. When I first heard about it I was like well, if you ever need a job, I can work there. Yeah, exactly, so, exactly, yeah he. I think he moves over there pretty soon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, another within the next six months or so? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell me a bit about your adventures, because not only have you had an insane life in the bicycle industry, but just scrolling through your Facebook and not that you have much on Instagram, but from all the stories I've been told, there's Baja trips, there's two or divide trips, everything from bicycles to motorcycles to you name it. What I like to have fun, yeah.
Speaker 2:Now it sounds like I've never worked. I do actually still work. My next door neighbor would always look when I'd be loading a bike on a Wednesday and she goes yeah, you're going to work, right? Hey, hey, this is work, you know, whatever. Anyways, um, I like to have fun and I like to have fun on two wheels. So, and I, I do blend bicycles and moto as well, um, haven't always it was bicycles, for sure, for the first, about 30 or 40 years, whatever. But um, yeah, little known facts like rode my pedal, pedaled my bike across Canada, right from coast to coast, right from here to Newfoundland, you know, a year later did a 5,000 K tour of the British Isles and pedaled lots Again, never raced but pedaled lots and more you know, recently, sort of moto adventures, as you mentioned there, I, uh I got back into motos.
Speaker 2:I used to moto when I was a young guy, got back into motos maybe, uh, you know, 2010 or something like that, and have been on adventure bikes. Have been down the Baja, three big trips down the Baja, like 5,000 K off road trips down the Baja. We rode the entire continental divide from like the BC border 49th parallel right to the Mexican border.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:And that was over two trips. Cause again, we're working.
Speaker 1:That was on a Marta soccer. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're, we're working. So it was like, okay, well, we have, like you know, two weekends and a 10 day or whatever 10 day period, so we're going to ride as far where we finished off and and do that, so you know. But, um, no, I, I, I still enjoy it. I, I still, I love riding adventure bikes. Um, uh, with all my gear, self-supported, and um, like last year, I spent a month sleeping my tent off my moto, but a two week trip here and then a one week trip and then a few, you know, overnighters here and there, so so did I hear from somebody that you go down to the Baja race as well.
Speaker 2:I was really lucky. Yes, it's the short answer I was really lucky. I was talking to our California rep at the time and just said we were. You know, he's a motor guy.
Speaker 2:No, he was like a gasoline head guy and I said you know, one thing that I'd love to do someday is get to the Baja 1000, but I don't want to be like sitting on the sidelines watching them come by. I want to be involved somehow, somehow involved in a team. Yeah, and he like casually goes I could probably make that happen and I'm like, don't tease me, and anyway. So we stopped that day like he was rapping, and we stopped someplace and he made a call and this and that, and about an hour later, where he's having lunch, he goes yeah, yeah, you're in for this year. If you want, you need to be in california november 20th for the departure. And I'm like you gotta be kidding me.
Speaker 2:And um, what it was was one of his customers ran a baja race team. It was a class 10, like a 10 car. They call it um at the time. And um, could you can always use extra crew or a driver. Like one thing I could bring to the table is I could drive a truck and trailer and I was comfortable in that position, no matter where it was, even down some weird back road or whatever. And um so went down and crewed for them and then actually just was able to go back and crew for them a couple of months ago and they've moved to a trophy truck now. So it's, it's a big game now.
Speaker 2:And uh, but amazing, absolutely amazing. And Baja 1000 is-boggling just because it's really just bragging rights.
Speaker 1:There's no prize money, no, but there's million dollar rigs and there's million dollar race teams and there's it's yeah, it's yeah, exactly that, as you say, like, at the end of the day, they're just racing through the desert. Yep, that's not heavily televised, it's not. There's no massive media, there's nothing. No, it's literally an arm flex that they're they're racing for.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I've mentioned the million dollar trucks. But the other cool thing is, like, in four-wheel vehicles there's, like you know, like a bug, like a stock volkswagen bug class and in, like moto, there's full-on. You know, the honda race team right down to. You know, like I know, I met a guy that was from bc that, like three or four of buddies, they just got together and drove down and were self-supporting and self-doing it, like, so you can do it on an absolute budget or you can do it on $2 million.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know so yeah.
Speaker 2:Like there's teams with helicopters and there's teams with like the guy gets off the moto and then gets into the truck to help drive to the next spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, fills up his own bike with gas, correct yeah.
Speaker 2:Sends his buddy off and hops into the truck to drive to the next area. Yeah, so it's pretty cool?
Speaker 1:No, it's. It's such an amazing race and when I heard about that I was like I have to ask, like, what you did and how you got into that, cause it's like we've got a a bunch of people that I know that have raced it and been a part of it and then obviously coming over here, always growing up in the moto world, seeing the Baja sure Understanding Baja and it's just like it puts hairs on the back of my neck, watching dust to glory.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly. And it's like, uh, like, even the crusty movies and stuff like that and and Rusty movies and stuff like that and all of those type of things, and it's like these guys are insane.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then not that I really followed a lot of the tour. Sorry the Paris to Dakar or Dakar, yeah the Dakar, and things like that.
Speaker 1:But then once Toby Price got involved, and then Chucky Sanders and those guys he just won this year and it's like seeing these guys in it, it's just like mind-blowing.
Speaker 2:Got to watch this too, yeah it's kind of really cool.
Speaker 2:For sure there's better coverage on the Paris-Dakar or the Dakar race now, because it's all over the world. But then there is the Baja 1000. I mean, there's lots of high video clips and shorties and people that cover it, but there's no coverage like there is of the Dakar, no, and but it's a cool. It's a cool event. I mean it's a national holiday down there in Baja and the. The locals absolutely love it because it brings a ton of people, brings a ton of cash, like it brings influx of, you know, to their economy.
Speaker 1:It's huge the top teams are down there for a good couple of months.
Speaker 2:They, oh yeah, pre-running and everything, oh yeah yeah, like you know we're, we were not a top team, but we were down there for probably all together about 10 days and doing a week of pre-running prior to the event yeah on both sides, not the ceo cortez side as well as pacific side, so two separate sub teams with their own pre-runners and everything else yeah, well, and just learning the course and things like that the course first at day and then, if you have a night section, doing the whole thing again at night.
Speaker 2:So you have, so you've pre-driven the entire course, even at night and whatnot. So yeah, it's amazing it's super cool and, uh, I'm just a lowly person within the team but I absolutely love it and what I lack in knowledge, I gain enthusiasm and I'll sign me up to drive a truck anywhere or help with a pit anywhere or do anything. Yeah, like, and it's uh, it's fun because I must have done something right. Because he says you're invited back next year anytime you want to come join us.
Speaker 1:Come on down yeah, wow, yeah, as I say it's, it's such an insane race and things like that yeah, yeah, super cool. And then you've also done a bunch of marathons?
Speaker 2:uh well, I'm not, I don't actually consider myself a runner, and I I'm still not a runner and I that's okay, we can.
Speaker 2:We can say you're not, well, I'm not, I'm not a runner, but I took up running, you know about, I don't know, maybe 15, 20 years ago, um, just as a bit more of a winter sport and something that you know. It was more interesting enough for a holiday, destination holidays, and my wife wanted to go to, say, san diego or phoenix or honolulu, and she was a runner, and so I'd be like, well, I think I better do a bit of training and maybe I'll come along and try to do this, whatnot. But we ended up just making them holidays. In other words, we'd go down a week early, you know, or sorry, not a week early couple days early. We'd run just to get climatized, run the event and then have a week holiday at the end of it, and it was really more just destinations to go and yeah run someplace warm in our winter up here when it's pouring rain, but uh, so you know, fast forward 20 years.
Speaker 2:Apparently I've done a few more things. I've run about 20 or 30 half marathons and and I'm probably I don't know a dozen full marathons and even some ultras, whatnot so, but I'm still not a runner. I'm really not. I'm running this weekend actually coming up there's a half marathon, so I've been training it's been about a 14 it's actually in Vancouver.
Speaker 2:It's called the first half oh, yeah, and uh, you know a game, but it's like it's going to be snowy and minus two or three at the start, and yeah, it's not going to be fast, but I'm not, I don't really care about the time.
Speaker 1:Anyways yeah a bunch of people I know are super bummed because it's not going to be fast and whatever and I'm like like correct me if I'm wrong the first half, if we call it that, because that's the actual event.
Speaker 2:That's right. Yeah, it's kind of the first half marathon of the year in the vancouver area is really what it is, and that one is normally quite a fast course.
Speaker 1:Oh, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Oh, there's people that are super fast, because it's quite often cool hopefully not raining, but even rain. The fast guys don't really mind if it's a light rain, because it just cools them as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:The people that are serious love it because it's relatively flat, if not fully flat, and it's fast yeah because I remember, maybe last year or the year before, and I'm the same.
Speaker 1:I'm not a runner and I struggle to run now because I've hurt my legs too many times. Let's just say that and um, but I was looking at that because it's quite, it is quite a fast course. So but yeah, not for me, not not this weekend with the way the snow is.
Speaker 2:You can't see it, but you look at this body. Does this look like a running body to you? You can, there's a camera there. Oh, anyways, I you know what it's fun. I have a group of friends that I love running and riding with and they will change over to riding in the summer. And it's funny because just last weekend we were running and we had sort of we're tapering now, so we had a 16k run in the snow and it's cold yeah and I said gosh, I'm looking forward to get back on my bike.
Speaker 2:How soon after this event can we get back on our bikes, like because they're all now into gravel, so we'll be gravel riding instead?
Speaker 1:yeah, so do you find? Uh, you use the cycling to help recover from the running or you don't pay that much attention you know it's funny because you'd think that whatever cardio you gained from running would help you riding.
Speaker 2:But, um, usually I just um, you know, because I'm trying to ride. Still, I'm not trying, I, I enjoy riding every day, yeah, and so it's just almost like you get on and your legs feel like shit, and then you'll just spin it out and by the end of the ride you're like oh, I feel better now. Yeah, you know yeah, I would.
Speaker 1:I would say the same with all the running I've done, when I I've only ever done one half and, uh, when I was fully focused on doing this half because I'd made a bet so I had to had to do it.
Speaker 2:What was your time, jared?
Speaker 1:uh, it was uh one hour 26, holy shit okay, so you're a fast dude?
Speaker 2:no, you are only. Only that's a fast, fast, half time it is. Are. That's a fast, fast, halftime it is, it is.
Speaker 1:So the bet that was made was the Sydney half marathon, which I didn't realize. It was hillier than what I thought it was, but still relatively flat. I'd made a bet that running was easy compared to cycling.
Speaker 2:How'd that work out?
Speaker 1:Well, I did an hour and 26. Yeah, I still believe that, in a technique setting For sure. And the reason the bet came around was because I was with a bunch of runners at the time and they were all upset that they didn't run fast enough. And I said, how did you train? And they said we just ran long distances. I was like, well, there's your problem. You need to sprint. Sure, need to do sprints to run quality yeah for sure, and uh, and they're like, well, if it's that easy you go and do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, put your motor so holy and the the first half of the half of it. Let's just call it a quarter marathon. I think that. Yeah, I think at the 10k mark I was uh, what was it? It was somewhere in like the um, yeah, I'm completely mental blanking now because it would be what 86 minutes. So I think it would have been like 40 minutes or something. Yeah, what 86 minutes.
Speaker 2:So I think it would have been like 40 minutes or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 30, 35 minutes yeah, I think it was in the 35 minutes.
Speaker 1:For sure, um was the where I was at so I was way ahead of where I was, I think, yeah, it was like sub four minute kilometers to get to that first bit. And then, crazy, obviously you don't have any mechanical advantage. And then crazy, obviously you don't have any mechanical advantage running. So that second half not that I slowed down, I was still on target to go sub 120 with two k's to go, and then I just hit a wall, yeah, and just blew up hard and ended up like walking across the line with tears in my eyes well, but I'm gonna say right now you are a runner and I'm not a runner, so because it again that's, but again that's your competitive background, yeah, you're focused and you're driven and I mean I give that.
Speaker 2:I say that with props, in other words, like good on you, yeah but the the.
Speaker 1:The original reason for that is, uh, and what I was asking is because, if you're doing a lot of running, I always found that, exactly as you said, when you get on the bike, you feel absolute trash.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So in that period of sort of three months leading up to that event, I, uh I would only ever ride my bike as a training tool to recover versus actually Right. And yeah, it's always. It's interesting to ask cyclists that run what their vision or what their view is on that.
Speaker 2:Well, I won't even tell you my goal with this weekend, then.
Speaker 1:Don't worry, there's no way I could do that right now. It would take me six months, and you're also a young guy.
Speaker 2:So I didn't even start running until hold. On what did I say? I don't think I started running until I was almost 50. Okay, didn't even start running until hold on what did I say? I don't think I started running until I was almost 50.
Speaker 2:Okay so, but anyways I run for fun and I run for like it's actually easy on equipment in the winter versus riding and trashing gear, yeah, but I don't eliminate riding. I still try to ride. Okay, it's just um, it's. It's a fun thing to do with like-minded friends. We're really a bunch of drinkers with a running problem is the bottom line yeah, I feel like that's most of the cycling community and running community. If you're not racing, that's it. Yes, it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very much so yes, um, last question before we wrap this up where do you see the technology in cycling going? So, as you mentioned before, like you've seen a lot of innovation. You've seen everything right through to the new age, with all the electronic shifting. Yeah, obviously there's now electronic suspension. Yeah, what do you see coming?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a really good question, because if we'd seen all of the stuff we've talked about coming five years ahead of when I thought it was coming, there's no way we would have never guessed we'd have teleposts five years ahead of when I thought it was coming. There's no way we I would have never guessed we would have teleposts or I would never guessed we'd had disc brakes or front suspension or full suspension bikes even at that time, five years prior to it. So I probably don't know. I mean, a better person to ask a question like that would be somebody, let's say, in the bike division that's already looking out three, four, five years.
Speaker 2:But, um, you know, I think lighter weight e-bikes are coming Performance like. So you take the same like something like a Sight 29er, which is an amazing mountain bike, and make it e-assist, but not 50 pounds or not 55 pounds or whatever. So I think there's going to be technology in that side of it. But gosh, hard to say in actual, you know, mountain biking, I think gravel still can grow just as far as what can happen with that Like gravel up until just more recently has been full rigid bike still. So you might get a little bit of flex here and there or something. But you know, if you take a little bit of the technology that we've gained in mountain biking world and apply it to gravel, we might see some pretty cool gravel advances. Um, but gosh, I'm probably gonna fail at that.
Speaker 2:Answer like and you know it sounds funny because I'm it's not like I'm out of bikes, like I still love bikes and whatnot and still, uh like, like them all, whether it's a mountain bike or a road bike or gravel bike or whatever, I still love getting on them. Um, I just don't see into the future what big changes are coming. Probably you know, and and when my and when my e-shifter failed this morning on my ride, I go gosh I'd still have I'd still have a shifter.
Speaker 2:If I had a cable right now yeah, you know what I mean and it just failed because the battery ran out, because I forgot to charge it. So it's my own bad, but you know, that's where I kind of go.
Speaker 1:Technology, yeah but you could say the same if it snapped, if the cable, yeah, but when does that?
Speaker 2:when does that ever happen?
Speaker 1:like this is true not as often as a battery on flat no, exactly.
Speaker 2:But anyways, yeah, that's a good point, yeah so I don't know that's good I mean even things like tubeless tires, like I mean, who would have thought of that, like whatever, 10, 15 years ago or whatever? Yeah that would make that much of a difference to the ride style totally, and yet they're like almost industry standard now, like yeah, you know so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. It's very rare that we see a bike without it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah yeah yeah, I don't know. That's probably gonna fail, like I said. Well, maybe I don't have my finger on the pulse as much as yeah, I think you're onto something with the gravel.
Speaker 1:My gravel bike is the 100mm XC hardtail with 47C tires on it and when everyone looks at me and they're like what are you riding, I'm like I'm riding the future of gravel.
Speaker 2:There you go, and it's like it's funny that mentioned the the mountain bike influence on the gravel for sure, for sure, because really that that blend, those both come together more like like the high, highest quality carbon race cross-country bikes and like what's going on with the highest level of gravel bikes. Those are very close yeah, like very close, you know so yeah, I don't know who, who would have thought about bmx bikes in 1975? Yeah, as I say or mountain bikes in 1980.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yeah, no, it's always.
Speaker 2:It's always an interesting question with people with a lot of industry experience yeah to see what they come up with I would love to think that there's going to be way more people commuting, but it's still recreation. The bottom line is, here in North America at least. I mean Europe's different Asia is different, but North America cycling is still strictly. I mean, really, sure, you know the commuters are going to say, ah, commute, but it's by and large 99% recreation, and so you know. But I'd love to see with you know, I mean fortunately, with the price of fuel and the price of insurance and like busy roads and traffic and on and on, like insert 100 reasons why we should, yeah, um, like the, I'd love to see commuters be more respected, like more, I think if you, if it's the old, if we build them, they'll use them. So I think that that's got to come too.
Speaker 2:I noticed that there was a really big change in usa when the nationally now this might all change now with the new administration, but nationally they put a law that all states had to do two percent of their transportation budget had to be to cycling infrastructure, and that was about 20 years ago or 15 years ago, and that immediately changed, like because guys were going to be building some two million dollar bridge. It's like, ah, shit, we still got to spend a couple hundred thousand dollars on bikes. But by making it law it happened and there's cool bike lanes and cool this and that in a lot of places.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't. Didn't realize that that was the case, but that's, I guess, a very easy way to change the perception of what needs to be done, right.
Speaker 2:Cause up until now, like in you know, maybe vancouver is different, but I don't think so. But up until now it's like okay, we got to fix this, this and this and this, we don't have any money left over for bikes, or we had some, but let's cut it in half because now we got to fix it whatever. You know what I mean. Whereas if they have to, by law, that changes it. They say we got to spend this, so what? What needs to be done?
Speaker 1:and all of a sudden they're looking for projects to do yeah, so you know, but anyways, I'd love to see more commuting, you know yeah, and I think with the technology trickling down from the e-bike world and things like that, I think that would be for sure it makes it more accessible to people.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I mean my wife's the classic example of that. Two or three years ago she had a beautiful Subaru out back in the driveway and the insurance came due in August. And she goes hey, if I can make it through this winter with just my e-bike, we should sell that car in the spring, and that was about four years ago. So and she, her e-bike is her car and combined. You know, we've updated a couple of times but she's probably put $25,000 on her e-bike in the last five years or whatever. It's amazing and that's her car.
Speaker 2:So you know that definitely um helps make it more accessible for people yeah and you know, even when people go, what an e-bike is four grand or five grand it's like, yeah well, you buy a car, insure it and fuel it and maintain it for a year. That e-bike's paid in the first year, let alone the next five years. Yeah, so it's a bad, bad, uh, you know argument to try to lay out how they're expensive, because yeah, there's.
Speaker 1:There's no, apart from the minor service costs which you're going to get on a car anyway, correct? There's no addition. No, there's no licensing. There's no as I say no insurance? There's no. You buy the bike, go ride it and, realistically, if you don't want to service it, the price of the bike is the entry and that's it.
Speaker 2:There's no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyways, I'd love to see that more.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know yeah, as I say, that's. I think that's a very interesting uh question to ask some of the the advocacies what's happening there?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah they're, they're always I don't think there's ever enough money to do whatever you you know For sure, and also the general public still like, would rather roll their window down and yell at you to get off the road. So I'm just like really dude, come on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, we don't need to go there.
Speaker 2:No, I know.
Speaker 1:I've had that one many times in Australia. Yeah. That's why gravel's better is yes. It is yes, yeah all right.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for coming in, for sure, spending a bit of time with us and chatting, and for sure you know from there. I have one summary. Can I put one?
Speaker 2:summary again I've been very, very lucky to work in an industry that I absolutely love, like, and I probably am a very one of a very small percentage of people that have been able to work at something they love their entire career, and so I've been lucky enough to work with bicycles and I was lucky enough to have a long career with Norco bikes.
Speaker 2:But you know, I can't if you look back on that I can't imagine working in a different industry, Like when I'm talking to somebody somewhere and they're like, oh, what'd you do? Bicycles, they're like bicycles. And I said I can't imagine working in a different industry. And if I was in this industry which I have been I can't imagine working or living in some place other than british columbia or even here. And even if you zero it right down to here it's like you know, look at the three or four other good bike companies that have been here I can't imagine working for another company either so it's been amazing career and and you know I'm here, I'm still wearing the shirt today and you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's just I I'll represent this brand forever because it's just been near and dear to my heart and it's been a massive chapter of your life.
Speaker 1:It has been it's. Uh, it's been a great ride yeah, yeah, so awesome, well good, thank you yeah, thank you, jared, it's been a pleasure, no problem, cheers.
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