Dynamic Life Cycles
Dynamic Life Cycles
Becoming the "It Girl" in Cycling - Debora De Napoli
Trailblazer Debora De Napoli joins us to share her inspiring journey through adventure filmmaking and cycling, bringing her vibrant energy and personal story right to the forefront. Since bursting onto the scene in 2013, they been a powerful voice for body diversity and inclusivity, overcoming challenges like a brain injury while advocating for self-acceptance. Her work with brands like 7mesh exemplifies her commitment to inclusive clothing options and breaking down stereotypes in the cycling world.
As we dive deeper into the conversation, I’m reminded of how crucial safe spaces are in mountain biking especially for women, queer individuals, and people of color. Hearing stories of initiatives like Ride Lab and inspiring figures like 76-year-old rider Betty Burrell, who defies age and gender expectations, reinforces the power of representation. Together, Debora, Betty, and these efforts remind us of the resilience and inclusivity needed to shape the future of the sport and foster diversity across outdoor spaces.
Thank you to all the people that have supported Debora over the years and I can't wait to see what is in store next!
7Mesh, RideLab, ShoreSirens, Endless Biking, The Debora Effect, Shimano, Anthill, Darcy Hennessey-Turenne, Life Cycle Project, Sara Kempner Photography, Sterling Lorence, Heather Glasgow Photography, Katie Holden, Anne Keller, Girl In The Wild, Rocky Mountain Bicycles, Juliana Bicycles, Pivot Bikes, Vancouver International Mountain Film Festival, Banff International Mountain Film Festival, No Man’s Land Film Festival, Betty Birrell, Jen Zeuner, Elladee Brown, Isabelle DeGuise, Veronika Voracek, Karin Grubb, Cheryl Moore.
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- Hosted and Produced by Jarrad Connolly
Welcome back to the Dynamic Lifecycles podcast. This week, I have one of the most energetic and lovable humans I've ever met joining me Deborah DiNapoli, who has been making an unfiltered name for herself since 2013, when she burst into the adventure filmmaking world with an emotional and touching documentary film. Since then, she has been loud and proud, linking people and creating awareness about many of the obstacles she's faced in her 50-plus years on the planet. If you enjoy this episode or any of the other podcasts, please jump on and give it a follow, or even a five-star review, as it will help me reach more like-minded people. Enjoy your listen. All right, demora, how are you?
Debora:hey, uh, I Jared yeah thanks for having me. This is fun.
Jarrad:Yeah, no problems, I'm glad to have you on. It's been I don't even know how many years I want to say. I'm going to say like, I got here in 2018 and it wasn't long after that that you started appearing at Steed Cycles and your energy is pretty unforgettable. Steed Cycles and your energy is pretty unforgettable. And, yeah, once we got into the podcast at Steed, there was a few people asking when you were coming on and it never. I don't know why it never really happened. There was like, I guess, lots of different things that were happening at the time and but here we are.
Debora:And then we had a pandemic. Well, we did yes, and then I moved to Salt Spring. So I mean a number of reasons, but here we are. And then we had a pandemic. Well, we did yes, and then I moved to salt spring. So I made a number of reasons, but here we are.
Jarrad:Yeah, this is fun so yeah, well, I'd say welcome, um, I'm stoked to have you here, and the big reason I say is your energy is just like contagious and it's like everything from just what you do in the community, how you do it, who you surround yourself with, and all of that just makes me so happy and it's like I just wanted to get more and learn more about your whole story and I didn't even realize that you had um and we'll dive into this soon.
Jarrad:But, like your brain injury and then all of the other things that have happened over all the years, and then all of the other things that have happened over all the years, and then how long you've been riding for as well, it seems like there's this massive I shouldn't even say seems. There is this massive growth that happened through COVID, with the cycling industry and not to put you in that same boat, but it seems like there was a lot of people that just came out of the woodworks. But the more research I did, I realized that you've been around for a very long time in the cycling industry and it's it's kind of cool, because you don't normally see that one in a female, but two in general, I think, anymore.
Debora:Yeah, I think it's because I was fat, so so nobody can take you seriously. Enter e-bike.
Jarrad:Fun fact, because I wouldn't call you fat, but fun fact the reason Kim Steed rides his bike so much was because he was chubby in high school.
Debora:No shit.
Jarrad:Yeah, there's actually photos of it. He's going to kill me for saying that, but it's true. He'll tell you the stories.
Debora:Well, now, I'm the it girl, you know it's like well, now I'm the it girl, you know. It's like uh, I'm queer, I'm a woman, I'm, you know, uh, I guess bigger bodied I would say. And, um, like, there's just like so much more acceptance and awareness around that that now I just kind of like you know you feel all the.
Jarrad:I tick all the boxes, tick all the boxes to say, like you went from being that token yeah, whatever it needed to be yeah to now you are it yeah, a lot of that was like self-creation in a way, to like working with brands like 7mesh and not being able to fit into their clothes yeah and having to call up and go.
Debora:I don't want to look like sausage casings so, like what can we do? Because you know, like these quads got to fit somewhere and now we have like a whole line extended sizing that Seven Mesh has like brought on where I've like been their fit model and have helped them in like designing some stuff for our queer community as well. So it's just kind of like reaching out to these people and not being afraid, yeah, just saying hey, like I am, I'm a writer, yeah, and that's it. I deserve clothes.
Jarrad:And I remember so I have done a podcast with both TJ and Ian from up there and they're both awesome dudes and their whole business model was based around um, what do they call it? They're in their business like deck. There was a blank page and it was like why is there a blank page? It's like because they want it to be people like them and they're just like average dudes.
Jarrad:They're not elite by any means, very good businessmen, but in the sporting athletic world I wouldn't call them the elitist of people, but that's what makes them so special, and I think it's funny when I hear people sort of criticize their clothing and the cost of their clothing. But they make it for people that need, whether it be the plus size clothing or they need that good quality sort of riding gear. Yeah, almost without using the word a terex of mountain biking, but that's essentially what it came from, yeah, um, but yeah, they're such good dudes up there and I'm stoked that I didn't realize that that was part of your whole push in that in that world, because I knew they were going through a bunch of different sort of changes and, um, there was a couple of new girls that started up there a few years back, so I guess that's who you were working with, like Lauren and those girls, yeah, lauren, uh, like I called them in like um 2019, 2020, and so we've been working on pushing this extended sizing out.
Debora:Um, and it was really just like, um, you know, like like we can't be fitting into men's clothing. Um, we are, like you know, like real normal people and even like you know like, uh, I'm not just like saying this for women, but women in particular, especially in mountain biking, unless you like fit a certain body mold, um, like the fit models are all pretty petite, you know, like very elite and that's not who's necessarily riding especially not our shore mountains. Like we are a like significant demographic of like different body shape sizes weights heights.
Debora:Um, yeah, and I mean I don't know, like um, we've got hips you do, but I also.
Jarrad:I look at it in like you see it a lot in the road world, or even in the, the running world for that matter, where trail runners have muscle and road runners don't yeah, and I feel like when you compare a lot of the females from North Van to the let's just call them, like the kits girls or the yoga girls, if you want to call it that, there's a very different body shape in that sense.
Debora:And, um, yeah, a bit more of that mountain body shape is is what's needed, I think a lot of the time in that clothing structure yeah, absolutely, and just so sort of you know like I mean, nobody can really see me because we're in a podcast, but I do also teach yoga, so it's interesting when I walk into a class and a lot of people are like wait, you're the instructor and it's like fuck yeah.
Debora:I really am. And then it's like uh oh, it doesn't diminish the quality of class. In fact, it sometimes makes it better, because a lot of people don't think, oh yeah, like when you're like doing like a forward fold or whatever, like you got to like move your boobs out of the way, and people don't think about that a lot.
Jarrad:So yeah, yeah, I always, I don't know. I've done a lot of yoga and Pilates in the past, and when you see the female instructor practically fold herself in half, because she's the diameter of a pencil and you're like I'm a cyclist, I, I, my body just doesn't do that.
Debora:It's like it becomes intimidating a little bit and um so I think, yeah, it'd be, Well, that's the whole relatable thing, right, and I think that that's kind of maybe, in a way, why I sort of exploded into the scene, like in mountain biking, is, I think I'm relatable and I think people see themselves in me Because I'm unapologetic and I just sort of show up and yeah, there's a lot of like you know, like doubt talk sometimes, but for the most part, yeah, you know, like I just show up as myself, completely unfiltered most of the time, and people like that.
Jarrad:But that's, I think that's what's different in today's society is, so many people are so censored and they're unsure what to say and how to say it, and that's, I think, yeah, what separates you for that perfect reason is you you don't have that feel, so you're not scared to get out there and say certain things like I remember. I can't even remember. I don't think it was a vimp, but it was one of the movie nights, one of the mountain bike movie nights that you were hosting, right?
Debora:oh my god, I think I know which one it was down downtown somewhere, and and all you did?
Jarrad:I just get dumped and yeah and then, and I think, but it wasn't even the, wasn't even the consistent, like if anyone's single come and see me comment it was the miranda miller was there and you almost tripped her over, or you pretended to, or something. And then you I don't even know if you knew the microphone was on, but you're like, I almost just tripped Miranda Miller.
Jarrad:And then she's like not even a chance, and I don't think either of you knew that the microphone was on the whole audience, like the full theater heard the whole thing happen. And everyone was just like wetting himself laughing and, but I think that's what makes you you and that's what's so cool, but um well, it allows for other people to just be themselves too.
Debora:it's like, oh, we don't have to, you know, like tire, you know like we don't have to like do all of our buttons to the top. It's like we can be a little chill and relax and I think, like what the world has certainly taught us, especially going going through COVID, is we need more play and more fun, and perhaps maybe that's why I've become a little more known in mountain biking Definitely in like the MC work that I've been doing and the like ride events, like Ride Lab, for instance, is just yeah, have fun.
Jarrad:Yeah, so tell me a bit more about this, because I know I had Ash Kelly on. She spoke a bit about Ride Lab. You've been on a bunch of different panels Like you're part of, as you said, like 7Mesh Pivot. You've been with other brands in the past. As I say, like tell me a bit more about like you in the community, because I feel like there's so many different aspects that you're pushing and I guess, like creating awareness around.
Debora:Like tell me about some of those things that you're doing yeah, well, um, ride Lab is a three-day mountain bike festival geared towards people that identify as female, whether they are trans or non-binary, and it is in the past. We've had it in Squamish. We're going to move it over to Cumberland next year. Mountain bike festivals because, uh, the conversations that we have, um, you know, like our, our fireside chats, are really insightful and very meaningful. And um, you know, we don't need to teach people how to change, you know, a flat tire. We don't need to have those tech talks. We need to like have conversations about things that are happening in the world and how we are being affected.
Debora:And you know, like social injustice and the intersectionality um of of you know, like, um, colonization and like what we can do to bring in.
Debora:You know, like, um like break down the barriers of you know, uh, people of color, indigenous people, um, queer people, like how can we create these safe spaces, and so those are some of the conversations that we have. But also we fucking ride, like we get some of the top guides and coaches and we go out all day and then we come back and we evaporate and we've got pizza and we've got races and we have a lot of fun, and then we do like these chats and when I was invited to be host and emcee, that was a spinoff from the work that I'd been doing with she Summits, which sort of you know I guess, followed a little bit of of that, of that outline, but wasn't necessarily geared just towards mountain biking and that's great Um, but it was more about, you know, like um, agency and empowerment, and that is um, that's in total alignment with who I am and what I want to see more in the community.
Debora:And as we sort of touched on um, you know, like for me, like my body awareness and acceptance of that, especially in mountain biking. I remember I was, I guess, like 2013, I wanted to be one of the first women to bike the Canadian Rockies from peak to peak. It didn't happen in that way because I was dealing with a bit of an injury, but I remember when I was, I still did it.
Debora:I still film it as a documentary it's just we had to tweak it, um, and I remember getting like a bike fit, um, uh, I won't mention like the uh who did the fit for me, but it was here in Vancouver, um, at a local bike shop, and I was, you know, telling him about what I was up to and he, he was like, do you think I could do it? And he's like no, and I was like why not? He's like, and he kind of like looked at me and he was like you just don't look like you can do it. And I was like well, fuck you and thank you and I'm going to do it. So it's kind of like always like bumping up against, though, like just like breaking through some of the stereotypes and the mentality, especially around mountain biking there's, you know, like especially as like women or queer people, um, we, there's a lot that we have to go through in order to like share space and create space is here.
Debora:I've noticed it here, because this is where I predominantly ride and yeah there's a lot of a lot of dudes, and but now it's like oh, we are now like finally in a place where we can still share space, and I think a lot of that comes from we're having these festivals, we've got these mountain bike clubs dedicated towards women, and I remember like some guy was saying why do we need another like queer thing, or why do we need another woman's thing? Or why do we need another like queer thing, or why do we need another woman's thing, or why do we need to have like a color, the trails thing? And it's like because we need it.
Debora:Like we need to be able to have these safe fucking spaces.
Jarrad:And I actually had this chat with Mel Webb on one of the previous episodes, and also having chats with many, many different people, including my housemates, as mentioned before. Like I, live with three females and it's like everybody we talk to and I'm a big supporter of having these clubs.
Jarrad:But I also question at what point does it then balance out and how does that balance out, and everybody I've spoken to and, as I say, I believe this as well is they're perfect for creating these safe spaces, to then create stepping stones, to then have what we want in the future yeah and even mel was saying it's like we'll probably never, ever get to the point where it's 50-50, completely equal, and that's unfortunately just the way it's going to be.
Jarrad:You want to put that out there? Um, it creates these areas to then, uh, I guess, change the story, change the general tradition of it being a men's sport with women on the side. Yeah, it starts to help bring that back to being more equal. Yeah, as I say, whether or not in the future we'll ever get to that point, we don't know until it happens. But I think it's such a cool thing to see that happening and it's very interesting to see how. I would even say, like I've been in the sport since I want to say like 2006 ish, early 2000s, and it'd be interesting to hear your side on this how that's changed as a female, because I remember turning up to races and we go to a downhill race and there'd be 250, 300 riders and there'd be three females yeah and literally if you're a female and you're over the age of 18.
Jarrad:I can see where your mind went with that for a second. But I was gonna say you could race elite and you'd be a national podium yeah, place getter yeah um, fast forward now and you've got almost full fields of women races yeah and there is that separation in the class and even in the younger age groups. I know, like coaching with devo, the local junior club, I think this year there was more girls in the club than there was boys in the club, and it's not by chance, it's just because that's who signed up.
Debora:Yeah, um and I think you know when we um, like, when we're creating these groups, like I'm one of the founding members of the Shore Sirens, their Queer and Allies initiative and you know, like the Shore Sirens, they've only been around for like a year and a half and they are 200 plus members with weekly rides, and our Queer and Allies ride the first ever, I would probably say, in Canada, let alone BC. I can't believe it's never. We've never had one before but, we get 70, people.
Debora:I mean that's a lot of people yeah and it's like oh, I guess we just kind of had to create it yeah and you know, speaking to you know, like when, when do we get to balance it out?
Debora:I think the more. This is not about segregation at all. It's about, like um, having agency and building confidence and then being able to, like, go out there and hold your own as well, but also still, you know, mentor and supporting. You know the up and comers, and there's. We still have a lot of work to do, though, and you know I'm not going to name the festival, but I did go to a festival last year and I was appalled at um, the mountain bike festival. I was appalled at the bro show. That still happens and I've said to everyone I was I certainly wasn't the only, you know, like woman there, um, but most of the women there were part of the industry or there were wives of you know people there and I was probably maybe one of like two maybe gay people.
Debora:Certainly I identify as non-binary and so I was probably the only one there I it was like a lot of drunk guys like I saw like scrotum and you know, like it was almost like here's a competition. If you, you know, like whoever can like, rip off Buddy's shirt first wins, you know this amazing prize and it was like wow.
Jarrad:So we're there Right, and that feels like you've gone back to the late.
Debora:It was not a safe space at all and it was like a punch in my face because I was like, holy shit, we still have a lot of work to do, like these, like, and it was a very well attended festival as well, and I'm like, damn, we got a lot of work to do, yeah, yeah.
Jarrad:Yeah, and, and that was one of my questions and and I've had I won't mention names, but I've had- certain we have to be careful here, because the person who told me this was, and still is, quite a reputable name in the in the industry.
Jarrad:But uh, the question that I've had and different people have asked this to me and I've asked people in your position and it's sort of like is there a point where having women's only things?
Jarrad:Will that then resegregate what you're trying to achieve now with having that separation, of having the safe space, having the ability to have that stepping stone to re sort of build that confidence, build that sort of comfortability around writing with different people and writing different things? And the question that always gets sort of thrown in my face a little bit and questioned and personally I even questioned it before I did enough research into it is at what point would that then create that resegregation of what you're doing, because you're kind of pulling yourself away from having men in that situation and I kind of wonder if that would ever be the case. But the more that this goes on and the more that it happens and the more that these groups happen, at the end of the day there's more women riding that are feeling more comfortable to then ride with the men, and it's changed my mind over time in the sense of like is it going to create segregation or is it going to create sort of integration? I guess is the right way to put it.
Debora:Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I actually think we're still like really early stages um in, in being accepted even as like, like, really like, um, like we're not. We're not really looked at anymore as oh here, just just move over and let me do it Um or can it, um, or can you know, like, let me pass you or let me get ahead of you, because I know I'm going to be faster or better, and we definitely are. Um, holding our own and um, I love it.
Debora:Like you know, one of my best friends and favorite person to ride with is betty burrell, and she's 76 years old, yeah, and, uh, there's a lot of people who still don't know who she is, and so we'll like pull up to like a trailhead and she gets a lot of people who still don't know who she is, and so we'll like pull up to like a trailhead and she gets a lot of like age discrimination, and guys will be looking at her and then be like, yeah, I think we're gonna go ahead and I was like, are you sure you want to do that? Because this bitch rips man, and so, sure enough, um, she's just like right on their ass and I'm like yeah, I love this so much it's.
Jarrad:So. It's so funny stages, so right. So funny that you mentioned betty because, uh, she went viral in australia through one of those like meme mountain bike pages.
Debora:Let's call it, no, and it was like it was a positive post.
Jarrad:But my dad sent me a video of her and it was like and as soon as I pulled up the video, obviously knew exactly who it was and where she was riding I was like no way, like we've all ridden with betty, she's so cool. And dad's like, yeah, tell her, tell her. I'm like 60 years old, no, I'm still riding bikes. And uh, he's gonna hate me for saying this on on the podcast, but it was like he was pumped to see that she was out there still riding, knowing that like he's got another 15 odd years before he gets to her age.
Jarrad:And um, but yeah, like same thing, Like she's so inspirational. So, it's kind of cool. But you're right, she does rip and it's cool.
Debora:She does rip and there's like a yeah. So I mean I, I yeah, I mean we could beat the whole segregation and safe space, like, but as long as people are still showing up, clearly we need to keep working, keep working at it.
Jarrad:yeah, yeah for sure so yeah, um, I want to ask you a bit about uh, before we get into the deborah effect, because I think that is such a cool thing but tell me a bit about life cycle. I guess that's what you're talking about. When you filmed across the rockies and everything like that and that sort of back in 2013, as you say, there was obviously a lot of whether you want to call it sexism or body shaming or everything that else went along with that at that time period. Um, how was that?
Debora:because I feel like there probably wasn't many like women's specific mountain bike movies and you went out there and made one yourself friends was the director of the festival and you know we'd watch all these films or we'd go to the, you know, vancouver international mountain mountain film festival and we would just see like like mountain bike porn after mountain bike porn, and there wasn't any stories and there wasn't really any stories that um involved women, certainly not gay people as well. That was always an issue too.
Debora:Is like um, unless they could really ride and then you just kind of like all the you're watching these people, um, they're amazing, and you can't really put yourselves, you know yourself there, uh. So it's just kind of like it sort of fades into the background a little bit. And that was one of the things I was like where are the women? And I remember actually like doing um, like a speaker series that asked that question, like where are the women in adventure film? And um, so it's kind of, I mean, not not awesome, but uh, my, my mother uh, died of ovarian cancer and we learned that it was genetic, with the BRCA gene in our family, and so at the time I think there were only like one or two genetic testers in Canada and so the waitlist was a really long time.
Debora:Yeah, and I was kind of like, because my mom was actually quite young when she when she passed away, and I was like shit, like if this is the way it's going to go, like I better do something with myself, and I was kind of spinning my wheels and I wanted in some way, I just like how can I intersect my love of adventure, sports and creativity, um, and potentially raise awareness of ovarian cancer?
Debora:And so I woke up one morning I sprung out of bed, you know, I just sat up like straight and I was like I'm going to create a mountain bike movie and I'm going to mountain bike the Rockies. I'm going to be the first woman to ever do it. Now, I didn't really know how to mountain bike at all and I didn't even have a bike. So I mean there was like a huge process and it was like a huge process but yeah, you know, in the end it became the story that I think people were looking for. Is that in my mind it was like it was going to be an adventure film, but it actually ended up being a personal journey because I went through having injury and then recovery and I went through the whole um like, uh, like the the fat equals low fitness or whatever, like I went through that.
Debora:Yeah, the body shame, absolutely yeah, and a lot of self-sabotage talk. And yet the drive for me was that it was really important to get the message out and I ended up having like a very emotional personal journey on that film and as a documentary you don't hold those things back a beautiful group of filmmakers who were also adventure athletes. They do the North Shore Search and Rescue show.
Jarrad:Oh, they do that now.
Debora:Yeah, oh wow, yeah, that's awesome, yeah, so they're pretty badass and they were following me around and they were capturing everything and being incredible storytellers. And I ended up finding out, while I was on my mountain bike adventure, the results of my genetic testing and I don't have the BRCA gene, but I went through a whole plethora of what if I?
Debora:die, and ovarian cancer at the time wasn't very well known, so it was the thing, I think, that people were looking for and they didn't realize that they were looking for it. Um, and I still think, like it's still, there's a lot of things that cringe when I look at it um and especially like being in an audience.
Debora:I remember when it debuted at the um Bath Mountain Film Festival in like 2014. I think it was like 900 audience members and I'm crying like on camera and like on the on the big screen and I'm like, oh god, this is so cringy but it actually I still get emails from people who have seen the film and now it's you know it's circulating still to like 10 years later.
Debora:um, at like cancer agencies is like a patient sort of uplifting story and it, yeah, it actually won a few awards and it toured the world. And I was named Miss January for World of Mountain Bike Magazine in Germany.
Jarrad:So it was like holy shit, I guess we were just looking for that story, yeah, and I think that ties in with so many different things that have happened in the sense of like everything we've just spoken about, like your story. Giving that out, in the sense of getting out there just because you're the first woman, I don't think really changed the world, but it was the ability to tell that story.
Debora:and then nothing to do with even mountain biking yeah it was like this you know person's personal journey and also the drive to do something that they were not equipped to do, but you know, there was like a push to do it. I mean, I trained a lot for it. Um, yeah, you know, I was like, why am I losing any weight? You know, of course, that conversation. Yeah, now am I losing any weight? You know, of course, that conversation.
Debora:Now let's talk about, like, menopause because now I realize I'm like oh fuck, I had a hormone imbalance, anyways that's a whole other podcast. I will have a fireside chat at the next uh ride lab.
Jarrad:So let's quickly touch on that a bit more as we move forward as well like we're not talking about my no, no, no, no, no no, I don't know enough about that to get into that topic at all, I'm just learning.
Jarrad:Yeah, early stages, yeah um, but more about the fireside chats, because you've mentioned a couple of times. And yeah, tell me more, because I we did one at steed while I was working there. We had a bunch of different people, all all the let's call them North Shore legends were on there. But tell me more about that, because I feel like they're so interesting and the topics, as you say, aren't just like mansplaining how to change a tire or how to fix your gears or whatever that may be. They are related to the community and things like that, like yeah.
Jarrad:What was that like? To sort of host and sort of, yeah, I guess, organize.
Debora:Uh well, what it was like was, uh, it was a deep honor and a privilege, and, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm sitting there with um like Katie Holden, who was, like the, essentially the founder of women's um, like Red Bull formation, and now, you know, like, as we saw, like last month, um women being invited into the rampage.
Debora:Um and that's part of her legacy and her work, and she wasn't able to do it herself as a free rider, but, you know, as a founder of formation. And you know we're sitting there at these fireside chats and I a younger generation who may not know who Katie Holden is or her work in Freeride, a huge demographic, and you know I'm I'm I'm hosting these chats with like, um, like terry yannis, who is now um uh part of the paralympian uh basketball team for canada, who, you know, became uh paraplegic from um bmx racing like four cross, I think it was uh.
Debora:And so the, the chats are like these, like real beautiful personal journeys of you know, like overcoming obstacles or adversity, or sometimes they're just you know, like, hey, what do you pack in your in your pack, like they kind of run the gamut, but they're so special, I mean, like the last year alone, um, it's just, it's, it's yeah, I don't know, they're just really important conversations that I think we've been like starving to have, yeah, um, and anything goes, which I love, it's not, you know, like you have an outline?
Debora:I never have an outline. I'm just kind of like let's light the fire and let's see see where it goes where it goes yeah, um yeah. It's just they're really, they're really special. And I remember, like ash and I were we're having a conversation about um gosh. I don't even remember what our actual topic was. It could have even been like what's it like to be a female mechanic?
Debora:like bike mechanic and then we our conversation kind of stemmed into, you know, like sex trafficking, which isn't, you know, a great conversation to be having. But it's kind of where we went and that was kind of where we went with it.
Jarrad:Um, and if anyone knows ash, she can turn any conversation in the complete opposite direction and you don't even know how you got there. Yeah, and it's great it's really good.
Debora:Or you know, like, um, you know a dear friend, monera, who always finishes last and that's kind of her motto, and she does these incredible things like the bc bike race which is a super challenging, like multi-day event and she's like I don't give a shit if I finish last. Yeah, I'm, I'm going to finish, yeah, and she's enjoying it. And she's enjoying it. Yeah, and she's a I don't give a shit if I finish last yeah I'm I'm going to finish yeah, and she's enjoying it and she's enjoying it.
Debora:Yeah, and she's a woman of color and she's older and it's just like fuck, yeah, go, manera, go.
Jarrad:It's like it's so awesome yeah, yeah, no, definitely side question for you after talking about that while doing all of that, did you ever get imposter syndrome?
Debora:oh, interesting question.
Jarrad:And the reason I say that because you're talking about all these cool people and shout out to Katie Holden because, like, her work is amazing and I think, yeah, so cool there. But sitting across from people like yourself, I've had like tons of different people across the industry, cycling wherever, and yeah, I definitely get things like that sometimes. Or people come up to me and they're like oh, like you're, you're, what was the one? I? Someone said to me something along the lines of um, you've got a face for radio on the on the retail floor and I just looked at him and I just couldn't stop but laugh. But uh, yeah, like having those conversations with those type of people, how do you go about that like?
Debora:yeah, well, so here's where you know, having like these safe spaces comes from, is that I deserve a seat at the table. Always, no matter what I'm bringing to that table, I deserve a seat at the table, and I do. You know, I sometimes think I've really got nothing to offer. You know, I'm not like some groundbreaking athlete. I haven't, you know, like you know, paved a way for women in freeride. I haven't won a race, you know. So I'm kind of like, what do I have to offer? And I think it's just, it all comes down to being human and connecting with people on a human level, which I, I mean, I don't think that I'm particularly gifted in it, it's just that's sort of where I found myself and people like to talk to me.
Jarrad:So yeah, and you feel I think for myself and not to make this about me, but I feel like I've learned to be comfortable with myself and I think that's what I see in you and listening to you now and talking about your story and things like that, it's like I feel that you're so comfortable with your own, everything, if we want to call it that. Whatever aspect you want to look at, it feels like you're so comfortable, and I think that's what I'm starting to learn and that's why I was interested to hear what your thought was with that and if you're like I'm nothing special but I still deserve a seat at the table, I think that's such a cool mentality and it's like interesting to hear that.
Jarrad:As I say, it was just something that popped into the back of my head and I'm like I wonder.
Debora:No, that's a great question and you know it kind of that speaks to like the community building aspect of the work that I do. And you know, when you asked me earlier about like some of the things that I do, it is the umbrella would be building community is really it doesn't matter if I'm um, you know, like the work I do, let's say, like in the marine industry or um hosting or emceeing um a film festival or a mountain bike festival or or being in a movie, um like when Shimano, you know, called me to do the deborah effect. I'm like how the fuck do they even know who I am.
Debora:Yeah right and it's just this, like personality. I guess it's like oh, this person builds community, we build community.
Jarrad:We want to tell stories about people who are like, um, you know, at the grassroots level yeah, yeah, and that's let's go down that path, because that's such a cool series that shimano did in the sense of their like at home, like all of the stuff that they've done. In that there's so many different cool videos. Um, I can't even remember the name of the one, but they had oh, I've forgotten the name now well, I think all bodies on bikes.
Debora:I wonder if that was that a shimano original I think so.
Jarrad:Yeah, they had the dog one right um with georgia astle. Georgia astle, I think, was on there um with with her dog and things like that, and I think some of those cool stories. But so how did that come about? Like they just rang you up out of the blue, or was there prior conversation? Because, like, sometimes that does happen, yeah.
Debora:Well, I didn't even know that. They knew who I was, but who I was who.
Debora:I was who I am, but a really good friend of mine, the filmmaker Darcy Hennessy Turin. She did, um Betty's film, northshore Betty. Um, she did the Moment, which was the birth of uh Freeride Mountain Biking, um tons of other award-winning documentaries. And uh, we, after I'd had my, my head injury, my concussion she had also, you know, she had gone down that path and she knew how, like what, the recovery for me might be, and so she invited me to work on the film the Moment with her. And so we did some work on the Moment and we just got along like gangbusters.
Debora:I actually met Darcy. I interviewed her for the Vancouver International Mountain Film Festival when her film the Little Things came out, which was a snowboarding film, I think. And anyways, I guess our friendship developed and my personality persisted, persisted, and Darcy's a beautiful, uh, storyteller and a filmmaker, and so I think it was actually her being the filmmaker like Shimano reached out to her and and they were like, hey, we want to do a Shimano original. And uh, she was like, I know the perfect person who, you know, has a story to tell and who's gonna?
Debora:be great on camera and you know it, it's. It's an alignment with shimano. So she called me up and she's like I want to. I want to make a movie about you know, are you fucking kidding me?
Debora:and, uh, she's like, yeah, I want to make a movie about your recovery from your brain injury and who you are in mountain biking and you know, like you, as a like, as, as, as deborah, um, because you just have like this, you know beautiful way of just being yourself which makes other people, um, feel free to be themselves, and and and so I was. I was really floored by it, um, and I would have done it for free, but anyways, uh, I'm so happy I got paid for it. But, um, I was like, well, we can only do it if we can do it as a mountain bike musical, because that was actually what really saved me in coming back to mountain biking was singing in the forest.
Jarrad:Yeah.
Debora:So I remember sitting there in this Zoom call with the guys from Shimano in Japan and I had to pitch the musical and so I had to sing an opera I would love to see the zoom call like all of them, and then you in the side screen just like darcy in the top screen, just like I'm not filming this like deborah's gonna have like we're just gonna let her do this, but there's no fucking way I'm filming this as a musical. We did film um a lot of like musical components.
Jarrad:It didn't make the cut of the film but I I'm gonna get the b-roll, but I think like even watching it, like I only watched it again the other day, and now you say that there is so much music energy involved in that and one of my questions was going to be about getting back on the bike, but I I can't tap to a rhythm to save my life, but my listening to music, I think, changes my life so dramatically.
Jarrad:Um, it's yeah, like if I need to go chill out, yes, I'll go for a ride and I'll go out and just clear my head on the bike. But I think the music that accompanies that ride really dictates how I feel after it. And it's like the amount of times I've gone out and I'm sure you can sort of relate to this and the amount of times I've gone out and had to listen to like the most angriest yelling like high intensity music, and then I come back I'm like, all right, I'm Zen, yeah.
Jarrad:Or the other way, like I just want to go out and have a chill ride, and it's like chill music, like yeah it's so cool to hear that and then re-watching that video and the movie as such, that opening scene, like obviously it's a pretty intense scene with the car crash.
Debora:But filmed that like pretty much a block away from here.
Jarrad:Oh really, yeah, there you go um, but the the scene, scenes leading up to that crash, is like you just screaming at the top of your voice. I don't even know what the song was, but it was like so energy, like building, it was so cool, yeah.
Debora:Well, there's a mantra in there and I really kind of stuck to it and it was like this super uplifting um, song, um and it was like you are magnificent, you can do anything you want. You put your mind to it, put your grind to it, and you can do it. Get up, get up, get motivated, get inspired, get your motherfucking clothes off. So that's kind of like always sort of been there in the back of my head. I'm like, yeah, I can do anything I want. I'm magnificent. I'm like it's just like pump you up.
Jarrad:But that, but the way it builds out and exactly as you just did it, then that's what I loved about. It was like that whole entry, like couple of minutes of the video. I'm just like I need to go out and go for a run Like.
Jarrad:I'm so amped up after watching like two minutes of video and it's like, but exactly that, and it's like such a perfect way to build into that story. Um, but it's. Yeah. I didn't even click with me until you just said it then about the music, and so tell me more about that side of things for yourself, because I was going to go down a completely different path here, but yeah well, I like music was like a way for me to like build neural pathways in my brain.
Debora:I know that sounds ridiculous but, it's, it's been proven.
Debora:Yeah, um, and I always like sing my feelings in the forest and it was a way for me to also just like process and get it out, because I've spent a lot of time in solitary, um, like self inflicted solitary, because I just felt like if I couldn't ride my bike, then I have lost, you know, like my community or my ability to participate in things that I you know, that brought me a lot of joy, and so I'd go out to the forest and I'd sing my feelings and make little operas or listen to music that had really like empowered messaging to it and that really helped me, kind of like find my rhythm and my flow again. And so, when you know when, my riding mates would call me all the time and they'd be like Deborah, like because they're fantastic riders, if there's a race, they'd be like Deborah, like because they're fantastic riders, if there's a race, they'd be on a podium and.
Debora:I just was like, oh man, like there's no way that I can ride with you, I can't even keep up, um. And so it became this thing of okay, we can go riding as long as I get to sing and you're my chorus, and so we just had a lot of fun with it, and they would, you know, like hide out in the bushes and they would like poke their little heads out. You know waving their arms and they'd be like singing, you know, on her bicycle or whatever the fuck I was coming up with.
Debora:And so it made it interactive and it made it fun and it took the pressure away. And you know we'd just be doing stupid things like bobsled, like nothing, but it was just we were out, we were having fun and we were singing and that's kind of how I started getting back into riding again so tell me more about that, because in the movie you talk about how it took you such a long time.
Jarrad:It was like six, seven months of just riding up and down a fire. Yeah.
Debora:I mean it was a seven year recovery. I wasn't on my bike for like six years and still to this day, I'm kind of you know, hesitant, I'm like, okay, I will not ride, you know, like anything that's greasy.
Debora:Yeah, which is understandable, yeah, I just I don't want to be off my bike for like something stupid. I'm just, I'm just here for pure joy and yeah, yeah, so it it was about. It was actually that mountain highway, the, the, the FSR road, going up and down just over and over and over again, and there were like barriers to doing that like um, this wasn't my first um concussion, it's probably like number four or five and you already you've got an elevated heart rate. Any amount of elevation as well causes a lot of like brain distortion and I'd get like really emotionally dysregulated if I pushed myself a little too hard and I'd be angry or I'd start crying.
Debora:And I'm just going up like maybe the first or the second switch back and I just did that forever. And then I'd add another switch back and I'd get up to like did that forever, and then I'd add another switchback and I'd get up to like crinkum, and then I'd add another switchback and I'd get somewhere else, and then I'd always come down. I was too afraid to go on the trail, and then excuse me, and then one day I just kind of like, okay, I'm gonna go on the trail and I can't remember what the first trail was.
Debora:Um, I was so scared that I probably like gave myself like yeah, yeah, like whiplash from just holding on, yeah, so tightly, um, but that's kind of how I started and that was like six or seven months of that and I just kind of rode up the FSR and down the FSR just so I could be in nature and, um, yeah, I think I made it up to you know, the sixth or the seventh switchback, almost up to like seventh secret, and I was like holy cow, I'm here, amazing, yeah, like I just finally got there. I'd never drop into seventh at all. In fact I didn't do espresso until I think maybe a year ago was the first time I'd ever ridden espresso.
Debora:So yeah, I mean I'd done, you know I'd done other things like I would do a lot of riding in Squamish and my, you know, moving to Salt Spring Island during the pandemic. I mean that's pretty easy riding over there. It's got nice buff trails, nothing too technical, and it was just really getting my confidence back. But yeah, I just kind of started dropping into into some trails and building my confidence up more and more.
Jarrad:So how was that breaking that mental barrier? Because I feel like that's something that I've spoken about a lot and I really think that's such a hard thing to do is, once you essentially break for whatever reason that barrier is created, whether it's like stress, accident, trauma, whatever has caused it. But talking about breaking that down a little bit and um, how, how was that for you? Like, obviously you built yourself up to getting up the fire road and feeling comfortable again on the bike, and then and then you just mentioned then like you were super stiff and rigid and and things like that how did you find that slowly breaking that wall back down?
Debora:I didn't do it alone. Um, in fact, I had a really good support system of, of of riders, um, you know, in the, the names that that pop into my head, that I see in my head when I think back to those days, are, you know, good pals like um isabel de guise or um like karen grubb or uh, like yeah, I mean I'm I'm just kind of like thinking back to like this this place.
Debora:We all learned to ride together at this program called, like the endless biking, enduro xc program okay and that's where I made all these um connections and it, when I started to like build my confidence more and more, it was because I wasn't alone and I was yeah, I was on, I was, I was in the in the woods with my friends that I felt really safe and comfortable with. And I think that was the barrier. And the really interesting thing that happened for me is um I realized that I didn't lose my skill at all. Like I was still a really good rider. Like I, it was like riding a bike.
Jarrad:Yeah.
Debora:Yeah, I, and I think that that was the most profound thing for me was that, once I got over the fact that I wasn't gonna hurt myself and that I could trust myself again, yeah, then I started adding more and more. You know, like features, um, and there's this in in the film the deborah effect. Uh, it doesn't show in the film, but you know, on um, like lower digger, there's the ramp that you go down like right at the right, at the bottom, right at the bottom.
Debora:That was pretty much the scariest thing that I had ever ridden in my life, and now I just I don't even notice that it's there anymore kind of thing. So it's just again that the barrier of just like trusting myself and my skill and trusting the people that I'm riding with, and I think that's really it.
Jarrad:I don't think we can do these things alone for sure, and I think that's that's why I wanted to hear what you did and how you did it, because I think that's such a big thing is like surrounding yourself with the right people that want to support you and and go out there and actually help you do that and um, everything from, as you're saying, like singing in the forest and like forcing them to sing and having fun and just making it like a good time.
Jarrad:But interesting to also hear you say like you didn't lose that like reaction and that sort of writing skill as such, because it's always like even myself I've had enough concussions to be probably more need to be more careful than what I actually am, but at the same time it's like that foggy brain and that like slow when you're out there just being a general human and you're like, oh, I feel sluggish and I feel, disgusting.
Jarrad:But then when you get back on the bike, as you say it's, it is just like riding a bike, and for some people, unfortunately, it's not as good as that. But at the same time, if it does work out in that way, it's such a crazy feeling that you can go from feeling so abnormal to so normal.
Debora:Yeah, it's like such a cool feeling, well, and it kind of takes me back to you know, when I speak about like trusting myself and my ability, it's also like trusting my own intuition to make good decisions for myself. And you know, you know, no offense like to western medicine or doctors or whatever, but had I listened to them I would have never gotten back on a bike yeah they were like you know you're at the time I was in my 40s and they're like you know you're older, you're not going to recover as well.
Debora:This isn't your first time like, if you have one more accident, you're older, you're not going to recover as well. This isn't your first time. Like, if you have one more accident, you're you're toast and that didn't happen, and so it was just like what? Okay, maybe I could stay at home and crochet nothing against people that crochet, but it's not my form of recovery when you go from throwing yourself down mountains to crocheting.
Jarrad:There is a difference, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Debora:um, and I just kind of had to trust that this is what I needed to do in order to recover and and um, I don't know if I talked about it in the film, but the one of the most profound things for me is that what took six years to to try and heal from and doing all of you know the modalities of healing nothing worked. And then I got on my bike and, like seven months later, I'm. You know, I still struggle with some things. For sure, I know how to take care of myself a lot better, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm working you know, like I'm like.
Debora:I'm like a, like a totally functional, high-functioning human being, whereas before it was like oh man, like I can't even like leave my house some days, yeah.
Jarrad:Like in the movie. One of the things you said is like it was giving you the ability to stay in the present.
Debora:With my form of mindfulness, for sure.
Jarrad:And if anybody's had a heavy concussion, I think that's the worst part of it is you can be doing anything and the amount of times your brain will just start wandering away like you could be as simple, as simple or whatever way you want to put it, but driving a car for that matter, and it's like you should be so focused on the road, yet your brain could be floating away looking at something on the sidewalk you don't remember how you got from a to b.
Debora:You're like oh, I'm home. Yeah, did I lock the door?
Jarrad:yeah, exactly but it's so interesting to hear you say that like that was your trigger to stay in the present moment yeah, um well, you can't not be in the present moment because I couldn't have another accident and so you're like you have to remain so, almost like hyper-focused to oh there's this route, there's this rock Okay, now there's like this, you know steep incline.
Debora:Now there's this decline and and and our descent, and you know our, our mountains in the North shore. They're almost like a perfect training ground for concussion recovery because they're so technical yeah other than the FSR, but they are pretty technical and so you have to remain focused. But you know you're working yourselves too, and and and like. Movement is super key as well, and you just, I don't know. I felt really good about myself after I'd come back from a ride yeah, and it's.
Jarrad:it's super interesting that you had that sort of feeling and change and result, because I'm kicking myself because I didn't look up her name, but there was a skier, a very good skier, like Olympic level skier, that had quite a bad concussion, massive brain damage, and her mom, from as soon as she got home from the hospital, went against everything that the doctors were saying in the sense of like keep her in a dark room, keep her.
Jarrad:And I can't remember Her mum had some sort of alternate medicine background and as soon as she got home she was like activating and working the brain and it was like, yes, yes, to start with it was very simple steps, but this girl is now a motivational speaker and has hosted, like I said, the. Where I met her was in one of the like the vimp movie nights and things, and she was hosting that type of thing. But back to being as much as you could say. She was full functioning, a full functioning adult, living her life as best as she could, going from that backwards to being essentially what would have been a couch potato or a vegetable, and prior to her accident she was, as I say, like one of the best skiers in the world and it's quite crazy to see that difference. So it's it's interesting to hear your side of it as well, in that that time.
Debora:Well, I kind of kick myself in the butt too, because I'm like, I mean, I think I knew long before that what what I was told to do wasn't working and I went against like my, my own, like knowledge of my own body and yeah, and my own way of recovering, um, but they just like instill the fear in you that, oh, if you have. If you make a mistake, you're done you're not coming back from this and it's like fuck you, man. I have come back from so much. But I get it.
Jarrad:You know they're not meant to be harm or and and, at the end of the day, if it did go wrong, like obviously you can come back, yeah, to bite them.
Debora:But for sure. Well, I remember this one, you know like, like betty, for instance who's broken how many bones of in her body like too many. Too many to count and she was like 50 at the time and you know, now I'm 50 and so I kind of laugh at this but she had like broken her wrist or whatever, and I think her doctor was like you know, you should probably pick a new sport, betty's 76 now, right, she's like ripping it and I'm like man.
Debora:If some doctor told me, like right now, that maybe I should pick a new sport because I like broke my, I'd be like are you? You have no idea. Like who I am or where I'm going, or like yeah.
Jarrad:What's happening?
Debora:Yeah, just shut your mouth, shut your beak. Um, yeah, so I, just, I, I love it. Uh, I love that people are like feisty now too, and they're just like no. I don't ride my bike. Yeah, thanks, but no thanks. But yeah, yeah, I mean like the whole, like sitting in the dark room and not having any stimulation was why it took me like six or seven years to recover. Yeah, now we know more, we know better. Yeah, yeah.
Jarrad:I almost feel sorry for some doctors having to deal with athletes like ourselves that need to do other things, other than what their standard medical says. But yeah, that's part of the world.
Debora:Yeah, exactly well, you know, dark room, no movement, no stimulation, no nothing. And it's like wow, that's gonna fly.
Jarrad:Yeah, not anymore, not anymore um, before we wrap things up, I want to ask you a bit about your marine journey, because I feel like you've been sharing that quite a lot in recent sort of months, weeks, what, how, why. Because I feel like it's so not out of character for yourself, but like everything we've spoken about, never really it sort of surprises me that you've you're in that world. But tell me a bit about that like how, why?
Debora:I guess um, because it looks good on tinder okay, sure, I'm just joking.
Jarrad:It's that it's really hot when you're like wrangling ropes, yeah, like this big bow and you're like, look at me no, it's like the guy with his shirt off holding the big fish and fishing rod, I guess yeah, yeah, it's like look at my big firefighting helmet.
Debora:Um yeah, it was a definitely a career change. So, you know, being um, having a head injury, um, like a serious concussion, for for like six years, I actually um, I chose that I wasn't going to go back into the workforce looking at a computer screen, and at the time I was living on Salt Spring Island, you know, surrounded by a body of water, and this was like my re-entry back into the workforce and it was kind of perfect. I started working on this little water taxi that would take the high school students from the other, you know, gulf Islands and bring them to Salt Spring to go to school. And and the the the key for me, because I never saw myself in the marine industry. I can't swim either, which is kind of an interesting thing. But one of the kids that I transported on a daily basis looked up to me and she was like Deborah, I want to be a deckhand, just like you. And that was a trigger for me because I was like, holy shit, they've never actually seen a woman in this role before.
Debora:And as my time on the water taxis started to like dwindle and I was I was looking out for, you know, more stability and some better things and ways to challenge myself. I mean, I'm always drawn to the natural world and marine life for sure program almost in a way, because I guess, you know, that little girl on the water taxi kind of inspired me to push myself to be more visible and the stuff that I do, you know, in mountain biking or in mountain sports as like a public figure or an ambassador, can really translate when you're working with people on a one-on-one basis. And this was during the pandemic, so there was no, there was no emceeing anything at the time, and so I was like, wow, I'm making a difference in this, like little girl's life, yeah, so you know, what more can I do?
Debora:and so I just started on this trajectory and I ran into a lot of you know, as you and I were chatting before the podcast a lot of misogyny and a lot of sexism, especially in the, you know, in the marine world, and there's a lot of salty sailors out there who, when they see a woman, they're like yeah, I mean, I've lost out on many opportunities because of my gender, which is still really unfortunate, but I, you know, like mountain biking doesn't pay and I needed a job yeah, there needs to be some something stable on a regular uh, where I can like still be. You know breaking barriers, and I still break barriers, like every day I'm. I'm like one of like maybe five women who work um out of horseshoe bay Bay now for BC Ferries, who are allowed on the bridge.
Debora:I'm a bridge watchman, which is really cool, and now I'm, you know, slowly moving away from BC Ferries to do more impactful work in ocean spill cleanup and it's just it kind of it sort of fits in alignment in some ways, because, as I am visible and as I'm standing out there, especially, you know, as a woman who's now in her 50s, who's like slinging rope and, um, one of very like few people who are allowed in places that only men are allowed, um, it's still yeah, it's like yeah, I'm just, I'm just gonna to continue to do this and represent and earn a decent living and call in sick every other week so I can go mountain bike and host events that are really important to me.
Jarrad:Sure, if they're going to let you do it, then do it For sure.
Debora:Yeah. So it's kind of yeah, it's really weird. It's kind of like the it's the thing that just doesn't make it's like which one of these things just doesn't belong, but it does in a way that it's it's not. It's not something that you see women doing.
Jarrad:Yeah, for sure yeah. And like I'm trying to think, like I haven't really noticed any women. But then at the same time I'm like it's probably because there isn't any to notice.
Debora:Yeah, so, yeah, no, all the power to you for doing that.
Jarrad:So yeah, you're right anyways, anyways, thanks for having me more musicals um, yeah, thank you for coming on and sharing, because I think your whole story, as I say, like we've done just over an hour already and it's like it feels like it went past so quickly. But, yeah, thank you for coming on and sharing.
Debora:Thanks for having me yeah, this is, this is great and thanks for giving me a microphone and, um, I am still single.
Jarrad:I was it was so funny Cause I'm like, when I mentioned to a few people that I was getting on, they're like, do you really want to give Deborah a microphone, unfiltered for an hour?
Debora:and I'm like, hey, I don't know if, if there's something controversial that comes out of it, sure, so hey, there's nothing so I did actually get an email from the Mountain Film Festival because I just thought, like last year was such a gong show. I had literally been like um, like broken up with like five minutes before I went on stage. I was like, oh fuck, I actually think my microphone was on too uh, when it, when the text came through and I was just trying to like I mean it wasn't a meaningful relationship, it was just it was a tinder thing, um, but uh, you know, when you've been living on a small southern g Island, uh, you kind of get, you get cabin fever.
Jarrad:For sure.
Debora:Um, anyways, uh, so they've got this new program director, I think, Um, and he sent me an email, you know, via this person, via that person, and I'm like he has no idea.
Jarrad:He didn't, he wasn't. I was going to say he hasn't seen you at the previous shows.
Debora:No, not at all. And and you know there are some people that really like you know, like really like it and enjoy it and think it's funny. But I did go mountain biking with a guy last week and he's like you look familiar and I was like, hmm, he's like, oh, you swear a lot. Uh, I think you were the host of the mountain film festival one year and I like that was me.
Jarrad:Yeah, I was there. Welcome to the Deborah.
Debora:Show, yeah. So, anyways, nothing bad came out of this podcast. We're good, we're great, but, yes, in a couple of weeks I will be hosting the Mountain Film Festival and I have no dating things to be upset about these days, so I don't know what I'm going to talk about.
Jarrad:Mountain bikes, I guess I'm sure we'll find out.
Debora:Yeah, I know, I mean, it's just I'm on hinge right now, so you know.
Jarrad:I'm trying to find the next story. So when, when I, when I say to people, where can I, where can they find you? Hinge is obviously one place.
Debora:Where else is a?
Jarrad:great place to get in contact with you if they've got questions.
Debora:Yeah, the best place is on Instagram and my handle is at D Denapoli, so D D E N A P O L I. My account is private. I have no idea why but? Yeah, just hit me up Any questions. And all my films are either on a uh a google search or chat gpt apparently yeah, there's lots of information.
Jarrad:You can get off chat gpt, trust me. But yeah, thank you for having me. Yeah, it was great, no problem, thanks.
