Dynamic Life Cycles
Dynamic Life Cycles
Cultivating Resilience with Mel Webb
What does it take to turn a setback into the adventure of a lifetime?
I sit down with Mel Webb, ultra-endurance cyclist and bikepacking enthusiast, to dive into her incredible journey from marathon runner to cycling powerhouse. After a severe injury derailed her running dreams, Mel embraced cycling, discovering the mental strength required for ultra-distance rides. As the host of Detours, she shares her story of resilience, passion, and her relentless pursuit of pushing personal and societal boundaries.
We explore Mel's transition into bikepacking, inspired by iconic events like the Silk Road Mountain Race. She reflects on the challenges of her first race in Kyrgyzstan, which deepened her connection to the bikepacking community and sparked a love for ultra-endurance events.
Mel also talks about breaking gender barriers in cycling, the importance of women-only spaces to build confidence, and how her podcast amplifies female voices. From social media’s role in promoting diversity to celebrating artistic collaborations, Mel gives a fresh take on building a more inclusive sports community.
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- Hosted and Produced by Jarrad Connolly
Welcome back to the Dynamic Lifecycles podcast. This week we have a guest I've wanted to get on and talk to for a long time. You might recognize her voice from her own podcast Detours. Mel Webb has traveled the globe on her bike telling stories from the ultra bikepacking world for a long time, and we dive deep into her backstory and talk about a bunch of different topics, from her first ultra ride to women in sports, to how she mentally gets through the highs and lows of some of the longer rides. If you enjoy the chat as much as I did, get on and give it a five-star review to help me grow the podcast and reach out to many more like-minded people. As always, don't hesitate to reach out and get in touch with myself, as I'm always down to chat. Enjoy your.
Jarrad:All right, Mel. How are you?
Mel:I'm good, Better now.
Jarrad:It's the end of the day. It's always nice. Did you get out for a ride today?
Mel:No, no ride. Today it was rain. Well, I had like work stuff all day and then I was like, okay, before this I'll get on the trainer. And I had to swap the cassette on the trainer and then I was like, oh, I don't want to like rush and be super sweaty sitting here, so I didn't ride.
Jarrad:And you're a bit of a like a trainer extraordinaire. I want to say I hear that you enjoy the trainer.
Mel:Okay, trainer extraordinaire is a stretch, but I, I, yeah say I hear that you enjoy the trainer. Okay, trainer extraordinaire is a stretch, but I, I, yeah, I'm. I don't. I don't know if I'm ashamed to tell you that I love the trainer or if, no, I'm proud of it. I really like the trainer. I will say that I prefer to ride outside, but, yes, I like the trainer what.
Jarrad:so, like I've done many hours on the trainer, what do you like about the trainer? Because I feel like there's so many different things people talk about. Are you is it because of, like, the virtual reality thing, or are you just doing like? Are you doing just training sessions on there or how? What are doing?
Mel:um, I think, like for me, especially as the seasons change like I will. If I'm in the habit of riding and like in a good either good training cycle or I'm in a good way with it mentally, like I have no problem getting out the door. But if I'm like right now I'm coming off of a month off of riding and when I'm like it's a bit wet, it's gonna take me like 30 minutes to get ready. The trainer is such an easy way to build habit because it's like okay, great, I can go and get like a really efficient 45 to 90 minutes of just easy riding, whereas to do that same amount of easy riding outside, I have to be out there longer, it takes longer to get ready, the bike requires a bit more prep and if you're out of the habit, all those are just like excuses for not making it happen.
Mel:So when I'm at the beginning stages of training, like I love the trainer because I'm like, okay, it's easy, like it's super easy to just get on on ride. You don't really have to pay attention to cars or kit or anything like that. Um, that's the main reason I love it is just habit. And then it's so efficient. It's so efficient especially when you're doing like trying to get in a lot of volume around like life and everything like, you can get a really good workout in on the trainer where, instead of like faffing around outside, there's good times for that too.
Jarrad:But those are my main reasons yeah, that's fair and I think like, especially how, when you say how efficient it is and how easy it is, like I fully get that in winter and I think like, coming from Australia, where it's just like so easy just to go outside and ride, very rarely do you need to put on more than two or three layers at most. Um, it's almost like the worst bit is working out the layers to be able to take them off. In australia, versus here it's it's like trying to stay dry, trying not to get cold, and you're right, it does take like half an hour, versus you could literally be on the trainer for that whole time. So, yeah, I get it, I fully get it. But yeah, it was funny, like I think you mentioned it in I can't remember which podcast, it was a pretty recent podcast you mentioned how you're excited for the trainer season. I'm like I have to take a jab at that one. To start with.
Mel:Well, it's funny because my partner hates the trainer and I'm always like, oh, like, it'd be so nice to have somebody to ride beside, like I kind of like, when someone else is doing a workout beside me, I find that motivating, and he's like no, I get fucked, like I'm going outside, you're, you're on your own, enjoy your little piece of hell, and I'm like all right, fine, I'll put my pop music on and just have a party, it'll be fine.
Jarrad:Yeah, I actually I have a feeling that, like Jake and my riding racing has probably crossed paths enough times. I don't know Jake personally or anything like that, but I feel like understanding what he's gone through and his training and stuff in his past he's probably been. You know, when you have like too much vodka or too much alcohol one night and you just like you swear off it, you just like you feel sick by thinking about it. That's almost how I feel like about the trainer. I'm sure he's like somewhat the same.
Mel:I'm sure you've nailed it. That's exactly. That's exactly how he feels. He's like I've done enough winters of this, this shit like I'm not doing it with you, but you seem to be enjoying it.
Jarrad:So power to you, like you do it yeah, exactly, and like to the point that, uh, the last couple of years I've been doing the grass grind or like BCMC through winter I won't do it through summer because I don't need to, but just so I don't have to go on the trainer. Like literally, I'll change and then I'll just like go hike in the snow just once or twice a week and that will be like what I would normally do on the trainer. I guess is like the alternative. It's like quite funny.
Mel:I need to do both those things. That is like my I shouldn't say my number one thing. I've got like a million and one things I want to work on this winter, but I'm like the worst hiker biker and yet I pick races where there's hike a bike because I enjoy it, but I'm slow and so I'm like I need to hike more this winter, so I should maybe like swap a trainer for a grouse grind yeah, yeah.
Jarrad:Well, the it all started for myself with the like grouse, grind side of things with Michelle Schaefer a few, a few years back she and she's gonna love Schaefer. A few years back she and she's gonna love this story. But a few years back she, uh, was doing it almost two or three times a week and then I had a bunch of issues with getting permanent residency so it wasn't working. So she'd just like ring me at these random times and was like, hey, I'm going up there, do you want to come? And it'd be like literally like a 20 minute, like, hey, I'm going, I'll be like, all right, I'm sitting around home. So I don't even know how many times I did it that winter, but it was ridiculous and it was probably the fittest I've ever been.
Jarrad:But so maybe we need to get the three of us up there hiking and it's sort of like it was good, because some days she was like way more energetic than I was and vice versa. So yeah, it was nice yeah, michelle is a.
Jarrad:She's a mountain goat, though I really don't like following her up mountains, but I love the energy, so it's kind of like you trade one off for the other yeah, yeah, you'll have when you say you'll have to ask her about the snowball fights and how upset she used to get when the other people that we're with used to have snowball fights and we'd trap her in between us and she would always be the one that would get covered in snow. It was quite funny.
Jarrad:That's awesome anyway, I guess, yeah, the big reason for getting you on is I've had a bunch of different people ask to get you on chat about your story. You obviously have your own podcast with uh, the detours podcast. But everybody kept saying that, yes, you talk about yourself a little bit and I feel the same, because obviously I talk about my myself a little bit, but they don't know the full story, the backstories, the, the hows and whys, and I sort of understand a little bit of what you've gone through. But just run me through how did you get into cycling? Because, from what I understand, you're a marathon runner before all of this happened.
Jarrad:Yeah so like yeah, when did that come from?
Mel:I'll admit I was never like very good marathon runner, but that was my passion at the time. Uh, I mean, my history with bikes goes back a long way, but never in a serious capacity. It was always a form of transportation, like getting to rowing practice in undergrad, um. But I was running like what you know seriously for, like a passion, hobby, whatever, um. And then I moved out West. I was running with a group, was like, okay, boston marathon, that's like my dream, dah, dah, dah dah. You know most marathon runners, that's what they're going after.
Mel:And I was like finally out of an injury cycle and a really good running cycle and in January 2020, I like smashed my tibia plateau skiing. And so, for people who are like, what is your tibia plateau? It's like the weight bearing bone right underneath your kneecap and I cracked the corner of it right off and had a broken leg. So I was like, okay, well, well, obviously you go through like the rehab of broken leg. And the surgeon was like you know, I'm telling him like, oh, I'm gonna run a marathon in September and it's January. And he's like looking at me like his eyes are rolling to the back of his head, being like these, like you're crazy. And he well, you know you have a plate and five screws in your right leg. Like that's not going to feel good when you're running and like the rehab's really serious. Like maybe you should just like dial your ambitions back.
Mel:And I was like you don't know who I am. Like I literally said this. I said this to a surgeon. I was like you don't know who I am and it would benefit your patients to have more positivity. Like you don't know the power of a positive mindset. I was just going off on this guy telling him that, like you know, if you, if you dream it and will it into existence, it will happen. And he's like all right, fine.
Mel:And like to be fair to myself, I did do a really great job of rehabbing. I had an amazing team that was like really supportive through COVID, virtually like my community rallied behind me. It was crazy. Like I was like, oh my God, I'm actually going to run a fall marathon. Then I started running and it hurt so much to do it. Like like the amount of effort that it requires to get running fit is a beast in itself. And then to like have that metal in your leg and then go through all of it. So I was like, okay, I can only run for 20 to 30 minutes, that's really not going to get me to a marathon, so no, it's like I I've been in that position.
Jarrad:I know exactly what you're talking about yeah.
Mel:So then I was like, well, I need to be more active than this. Like I'm losing my brain. I started riding my road bike more. It coincided with lockdown, without giving you the full leg break story and all of that. But I was in lockdown for six to seven weeks before everybody else was, because I had a broken leg and couldn't walk and couldn't walk. So I was training for lockdown and then lockdown happened and I was like I've already been here for two months. Everybody Like I'm ready to break free.
Mel:So I was like really big into riding my road bike and it just wasn't enough to be like on city streets so I bought what I thought was a gravel bike. It was a cross bike but it did the job for me and I started like riding fishermen's all the time and Pacific spirit and I was like, okay, I'm hooked and that was. That was the end of the running. I pretty quickly after that was like I'm a cyclist. Now running is something that I don't know weird people who think running's fun do.
Jarrad:That's fair. Yeah, I, and it just makes me laugh because I don't know if I've ever told this story. I've definitely told it to people, but not to very many. But when you talk about like running fit, I used to date a girl that was a very good trail runner and she'd get upset and I'm sure, like same thing like Jake can probably just like jump in and just do things because he's got an engine and we're at a at a trail running race and they're all complaining about how slow they ran and how they didn't do as fast a speed or whatever.
Jarrad:And I asked them I'm like, hey, like what did you do for training? And they're like, oh, we just did long distance runs. And I'm like that's why, like, you need to do these sprints and things like that. And then somebody in the background was like, oh, if it's so easy, you do it. So I kind of like stabbed myself in the foot a little bit and then then went into this like secret training regime, turned all of my like Strava to private everything. So no one knew secret.
Mel:I love that. Why did it have to be secret?
Jarrad:because they all thought that I was just this dumb cyclist. And then, fair I, I turned up, so like, did the training, did the full workout, like on training peaks, followed the routine, did all the sprints and I think the deal was I just had to run a half marathon and there was no like expectation, but I had to run it so.
Jarrad:I put the expectation on myself to try and do a top 100 of the Sydney half marathon and I just missed out. But what happened was I ended up being one of the fastest half marathon runners in the local club and it like everyone was like either super stoked that I turned up and did so well, but then, on the other hand, everyone was super annoyed that I did so well as well, and it was quite funny.
Mel:I, I'd be mad, I'd be so mad, I mean I'd be like stoked for you, but mad yeah that's what it was.
Jarrad:It was like everyone was like outwardly stoked but you could tell they were just so pissed on the inside. But when you're talking about like running fit, like at the time I was a cat, one road racer, yeah. So I was like, yeah, this is good, like I've got an engine, but, holy, like there was no way, like I'd run five kilometers and just couldn't walk the next day. It took me like I literally did a 12 week training block to get ready for this half marathon. So it was like full legit, yeah, but yeah, it was so funny because then, like like my girlfriend at the time was just like just wetting herself every day I'd like wake up and I'd be like hobbling down the stairs, like, yeah, it was so funny.
Mel:So I fully get it yeah.
Jarrad:So then, once you started getting into the like cycling and you're doing more and more of these gravel rides and things like that, how did that transition from just being like an amateur cyclist to then like full blown bike packer? Because I feel like there's this common story with a lot of bike packing people. I talk to story with a lot of bike packing people. I talk to whether it's like Mel Hacken or like a bunch of other people I've spoken to in this world that it's like you.
Jarrad:Just, I don't know there's there's almost like there's no cycling history behind it. It's just you get in, you start cycling, you're like, yeah, I like this, and then you just cycle for like hundreds to thousands of kilometers at a time and nobody thinks twice about it. But then you look at someone like myself or I'm gonna keep referring to Jake here but like us, or even like Joe Nation that just won like the Silk Mountain road race, and we're kind of more like I don't know general, like grew up cycling type people. I don't know is what, how did that happen?
Mel:it's. I mean, I think it was part of the like the desire to not be riding in the on the road, um, like, definitely go heading off road. And then I just like I would see I think it was really the Silk Road mountain race video, like the film they put out on the first race that really kind of turned me on to like the world of bikepacking. Um, no, that's a lie, actually it was I somehow stumbled across like a piece of news about a guy who lives, who lived in the rockies, ryan corey, and he had written this book, uh, bikepacking the canadian rockies. He has like tragically since passed away from cancer, um, but anyways, he wrote he created these, these roots, these incredible roots, and that was really the thing that I was like, oh, I want to go see these things, um, and then, at the same time of like exploring the world of bike packing, then there was the Silk Road film, uh, so those things kind of coincided.
Mel:But I mean, what gives me like the audacity to ride that far? I don't know, just being like a stubborn person and desire to see things Like I just was like these are things I want to see and I want to be in it. So I guess naturally I have to just ride my bike that far to do it. Like when I think about you know, I want to be on my bike and experiencing these things. So if it's going to take you know, 200 kilometers to do it, then whatever, I might be slow and that's fine.
Jarrad:Yeah, like I, I get it a little bit.
Mel:You don't get it, You're like what the heck?
Jarrad:No, no, no, I do. And I'm like, as I say, like every time I speak to somebody that has got a similar story that they've just jumped straight in. It's always like that interesting question of like why or how, yeah, yeah, and even for myself, like I've done 24 hour solo rides and like I think, yeah, I did it quite a big ride on the island and all these other things, so I get the the drive to ride that far and like even looking at doing things like BC, epic and stuff like that in the future. But it's always interesting hearing like you just sort of stepped in and then just you're like, yeah, that's what I'm going to do, and then like there wasn't even like a build up sort of thing from what it sounds like, but at the same time, obviously there is sounds like, but at the same time, obviously there is.
Jarrad:So what was that sort of early sort of transition? Because you can't just go from being a runner and a rower which I understand like both of those things help and and work with that, but you can't just go from getting on a bike and just like going yeah, I'm gonna gonna start riding to then obviously riding these massive distances Was there. What was that buildup like? How? How did you do that? Or was there always a goal of doing things like the silk mountain, or how's that work?
Mel:I mean it's such a good question and you're not going to love my answer, cause it. I mean it was the first long distance thing I did did happen one year after I bought my first gravel bike to be fair, it was one year after Um. But in terms of like preparation, easing into that, like I was grossly underprepared, I just was like, uh, I think after, like I mean, I really don't like when people tell me I can't do something. So I think that surgeon, like really kind of he ignited a bit of a fire in terms of like you know, I'd be going for checkups and he was like you know, you really shouldn't be, like I was riding my bike every day and he's like that's a lot of exercise, like you know, you could chill out a bit, and I think just that was part of it. And then I think I actually might've started working with and then I think I actually might have started working with uh, maybe it was the year after, but I at one point I worked with Laura Brown, who's a local um to the north shore, and she I really wanted to work with a female coach and so I worked with her and I think maybe that was after my first big bike pack, but that was how I like really was able to like step up my training and things like that. But the first really big long distance thing was after a summer of you know doing really little Island bike packs and little Island hops.
Mel:The first year I had my gravel bike, some point in the winter I had been like obsessed with this bike packing, the Rockies book, and I really was like I don't know how I got it in my head and I have, I'll have to ask Jake but I really wanted to go from Fernie to Lake Louise and back. No good reason for that, other than I really really wanted to go to Lake Louise because I'd never seen it. Um, and I wanted to do something big. I wanted to do something I'd never done before and and so I kind of concocted this goal. And then Rafa, that winter posted like an Instagram story box being like what are your 2021 riding goals? And so I put like bike pack from from, uh, ferdy to Lake Louise and back.
Mel:And then I get a message like a month later I don't think anything of it and they're like this is a pretty big goal, tell us more about this. And I was like yeah, like I just started riding a year ago, I really want to get into bike packing. This would be like a hugely scenic thing, like I've just moved to Vancouver several years ago and I've never seen the Rockies, and like it would be a big celebration of like how far I've come from breaking my leg. And then they're like okay, cool, we'll be in touch. And I'm like what are you going to be in touch about? And then they, a couple of weeks later, they're like okay, so you've won our riding goals contest. And I was like what?
Mel:Wow, yeah, and they're like, yeah, so we'll do like this Instagram spot on you and we'll send you all this kit and dah, dah, dah, dah. And I was like, oh shit, now I have to do this.
Jarrad:Yeah. You put it out into the universe. And now it happens.
Mel:Yeah, and so that was like basically why? I mean, not, I wanted to do it because of me. But then I was like, you know, there would, there could have been excuses for not doing it, but I'd won this thing and they'd given me a bunch of stuff and I was like, well, it's real now. And so that was like well and truly my first off-road bike pack. It was a total of like just shy of 700 kilometers, um, off-road. I'd never done anything multi-day like this ever. I was riding my bike maybe 200 K a week, um, and I just, yeah, but it was the best. Like I think that diving head first is the best way to learn and I'm comfortable doing that. So that's, that was kind of the the Genesis story of the off-road. And then, once you go that far, you're like, oh, I can get through all of that, I could do anything. And then you just, you know, your, your definition of what's hard changes every time you do something hard.
Jarrad:Yeah, I completely agree. I've got like so many questions on what you just said there, but the I love that you just said the definition changes of hard, because it's like exactly that as and this is such a side topic right now but I've always believed in like putting yourself through like controlled stressful situations to make uncontrolled stressful situations like easier. Yeah for sure, but it's yeah so interesting and funny that you say that. But when, when you got that like I guess, message from Rafa saying hey, like we want to back you to do this, did you feel the pressure change or did you feel like your I don't even know how to describe it, but did you feel like there was almost like this pressure to succeed at this? Because whenever I've done any of these sort of outrageous goals for myself, I've always kept it fairly quiet, fairly local to who I tell and what I tell, just to make sure I have like the right support yeah and then when I'm like all I'm ready to pull the trigger, I'm going to do it within the next week.
Jarrad:Like one of them was like a 24 hour ride on the Island. I was kind of like, all right, this this week I'm going to do this. I sent a message out to a bunch of people saying, hey, like this is what the deal is. If you want to follow me, you follow me, sort of thing, but then didn't really put anything out until after the ride because I kind of wanted it to be for myself, without the pressure of having that. Like, did you feel that pressure change? Because I guess, like originally the idea started for yourself, yeah, but then Rafa obviously jumped on board like, and not that raffle would have put any pressure on you, but obviously self expectations change um, I think I was.
Mel:I felt a little bit of imposter syndrome, like I was like oh, like, who am? Who am I to be doing this? Um, but then I kind of reminded myself like no, if somebody wants to back you, like they see value in whatever it is that you're doing and like it doesn't really, like no one said, hey, we want this to be the outcome. They're just like this is going to be a really cool journey and we want to be here for it. And so that was kind of what I tried to remind myself of, like going into it and like in conversations beforehand they were super lovely Like I was like, okay, nobody expects anything of me, and naturally, like the plan, like some of the days weren't exactly the same as I had, like planned out on paper, like I did some course correcting along the way, um, and I think, like the first, the first little bit of the trip, it was more my self expectation that I was like, well, I said I'm going to do this and I want to do it, so I have to do it. And then that kind of shifted as like I got more tired and I realized like, oh, some of your expectations of yourself are unrealistic and so maybe you should adjust those. And I gave myself permission to do that, which was really cool.
Mel:Like we took a, jake came with me and we did a rest day to get to Lake Louise. We took the free shuttle or the $5 shuttle from Banff, where we were having our luxury motel, and we took the free shuttle. We saw Lake Louise and then we rode home and it was the best, because I was so messed up from the first two days of riding and I was kind of feeling like a bit of a chump for taking the bus there. But then I was like nobody told me I had to ride this whole thing, like I'm not taking. Like nobody told me I had to get to Lake Louise. Nobody told me this was all your idea and I'm so glad that I like learned that it was okay, because then the next day I had more energy, I felt good and I was like oh, you don't like, the plan is totally up to you, which was cool.
Mel:But yeah, I think that answers the question of like I kept I tried to keep the pressure mostly internal and yeah, I mean it's scary to tell people what the things that you want to do, but I'm like a little bit woo-woo and then I'm like if you put it out into the universe, the right people will support you and you never know who resonates with what you're up to. So I was like I think I would like if I was the outside looking in, like this is the kind of thing I would want to know about and like I would want to cheer somebody on for. So I feel feel like I should share it.
Jarrad:Yeah, yeah, I think that's like such a great idea and such a great mentality too, because it's like and I same thing, I'm a massive believer in like the energy of the world and people laugh at me a little bit, especially the people I live with, but it's sort of like yeah, I fully believe in that in the sense of like positive, like emotions and things like that will get that positive result, and it's sort of as, exactly as you say, you put it out there and and people open doors for you, people open different boxes and things like that and are able to support you, and I think so. I think that's, yeah, so awesome. Yeah, how how was the trial by fire, though? Like, what were some of those challenges?
Mel:well, I bought all my bike packing gear based on what my partner has. Um, I didn't test any of it, I didn't pre-fit anything to my bike. I just was like, oh, jake has this gear and I had like at that time I like loosely knew who Jenny Teff was if listeners are familiar with her but like I didn't quite fully understand that, like you know, you could reach out to these people and see if they would be willing to help you. I just was like, oh my God, she's amazing. So I just bought everything based on what Jake had and quickly learned packing an extra small, 48 centimeter bike, totally different than that of, like a size large that fits a six foot one man, like totally different. So that was like number one.
Mel:The packing conundrum of how do I fit everything on my tiny bike, before we'd even leave the house, like I was losing my mind about where everything would go, and then you figure out the Tetris game of getting everything on the bike and I had never ridden like a hundred plus kilometer days back to back off road in the mountains. But you know, on paper you're like, oh, it's only 1500 meters of elevation today or it's only whatever, and it's totally different when you do it for the first time. I was like the first day was super hot, we didn't leave early enough. We ended up on like a crazy hike a bike because I just was like, oh, this has heat map, like it has tracks on heat map, so surely people go over it. And turns out it was the first hike a bike they do in the tour divide, which is horrible. Um, but I didn't know that because I was just like clicking on maps and it it was a recent addition to the race anyways at that point, and I don't even think I knew what the tour divide was, to be fair to me. So like, how would I have known? Um, so it was like the packing, the back-to-back days, had no idea how to deal with saddle sores.
Mel:Like, oh my god, my butt was in the craziest state when we got to Banff that I was like, oh my god, we're gonna. I was, I was googling flights. I was googling flights, but yeah, all these things were just like it was crazy. But then you've, I just like, yeah, we course corrected, we had that rest day, and and then you, then you do it and you're like, whoa, oh my, like my mind was, I couldn't compute it like the last 20k into Fernie. At the end I was like, okay, I think we have to go like a thousand plus k next time, like there's no way that six, seven hundred is long enough, like I want to to do something way longer. And Jake was like this was one of the hardest bike packs I've done. Like please, let's maybe sleep for a week before we talk about something new.
Jarrad:Yeah yeah, jake's the same one, for sure.
Mel:Yeah, he's a. He's a bit more sensible. I'm like I am an action woman, like if there's something I want to make happen, it's basically like a runaway freight train. There's not really much stopping it, for better or for worse.
Jarrad:Um, it's like the best and worst trait yeah, yeah, I feel like that's like my girlfriend, elisa as well, and and me it's sort of like, exactly as you explain it, if she wants something to be done, it will happen, whether there's any thought put into it at all or it just has to happen. Versus, like. I feel like I'm somewhat relating to Jake a little bit here in the sense that we'll, we'll take a step back, we'll think through it and then, if it's like the risk versus reward weighs out, then we're like like, yeah, let's do it. Like I can fully relate where he's coming from after things like that. But yeah.
Jarrad:And then so, moving forwards from that first bikepacking trip, there's been a few different races. You've done what was some of the highlights you've done through those. Oh, like, like races themselves, or moments, or yeah, I guess just like in the sense of like it's been what four, three years since you've sort of really stepped into that world. How has that escalated to what you've just come back from with the Silk Mountain road race? Like, obviously, from what I understand, you did that fairly early on as well, like you've done. It was my first race.
Mel:It was my first race, which is just like a lot of people were like Mel, that is a stupid idea. You've never done an ultra endurance event. You've never done a bike packing race. Why would you fly halfway around the world to Kyrgyzstan? And I mean, like it all is in line with who I am as a person. I was like enamored by the landscapes. I felt like a lot of connection to doing it. It helped that Jake was also going that year.
Mel:Um, but I really wanted to go, like I. I just thought, you know, there's no point in doing something half-assed and that's not to say that like other events are half-assed, but I just didn't feel like it was worth doing an event that I felt lukewarm on. I wanted to do something that I felt really excited about and that felt really exciting and really attractive to me, versus just like starting at something that I was like I'm just going to tick the box and do a first one and get it out of the way, like that's not my style and I, I guess, like you could say, failed epically because I got really sick and like scratched on the third day and so scratching means like removing yourself in the race. You cross your name out, blah, blah, blah. But I like, looking back, I do it exactly the same way because that got me absolutely hooked to like the broader community, all of it, like it was the right thing for me. I can totally understand why people told me not to, but there were a select few people in my circle who were, like, go for it.
Mel:If, like this is, if this is what you want to do, then you should do it. But yeah, that was my first race. It's still the race that I think I will. Even just bikepacking in Kyrgyzstan, like it is the most. It's just another planet, but that is, I think, the most magical like event community people Um, I could wax poetic about it forever, but I'm like my, my brain is still very much in Kyrgyzstan. I like have had the post race blues very badly this time around. So I'm like, can we go again right now?
Jarrad:So tell me a bit more about that, because well, yeah, let's take a complete. I'm going to use your name detour here. I'm going to spin that right in there.
Mel:That's exactly why it's called that.
Jarrad:Tell me a bit about the mental battles, because anybody that's ridden long distances or just done anything high exertion for a long time, you obviously go through massive waves of highs and lows and emotions and like I even myself I know there's been periods where, like literally I'm crying while I'm riding my bike and I have no idea why, and it's like not that I'm upset, it's just the emotion is so overwhelming. Like how do you deal with that? Because yeah, like where, where and how, like obviously with the running and things like that, it's, it's helped build you to that point. What, what do you do?
Mel:um, I mean I think it's really personal what works for people mentally. I mean I find like the bike quite meditative. But the biggest thing that has really helped me like get through specifically lows, is like everything is impermanent, everything will pass, and so if you can remind yourself that like none of these feelings are permanent, um, it's really really helpful, cause it's like okay, I feel really bad right now and it's fine to feel your feelings, but it will change. You're not going to feel like this forever, like it really well and truly will change. And so that's been like the biggest thing that's helped me. You know, get through any hard moments.
Mel:And then, like highs, I'm really trying to work on not like feeling too high, because the flip side of a really high high is a crushing low, because the flip side of a really high high is a crushing low. And so the more like feel the highs and embrace the highs, but like, try and move, like, especially when it comes to bike pack racing and this stuff, specifically Because you know you're like for the example of Silk Road it's, you know I was on my bike for almost two weeks and you can't lose your mind on the first day, right, because you've got 13 more to go. So you really have to be keeping your emotions in check while still embracing and feeling them, and not just letting yourself get too carried away. So it's always like things are going to change and that's okay, but it's been a road to figure out how to just and it changes too.
Mel:I think you can't always be mentally strong, like that is the biggest thing. When people are like how do you do these things and like I, I say I want to start the race over again and be doing it right now. But I think my brain personally needs more time to just not have to be that resilient. Uh, because it's like any muscle, it gets really tired and so you're not going to be that resilient. Because it's like any muscle, it gets really tired and so you're not going to be able to be tough for resilient forever.
Jarrad:Yeah, I would, I would have to agree, and it's like there's so many things you're saying that I'm relating to because, within the households I live with my, my girlfriend and then two other girls, yeah, and we always talk about your emotion range of being plus 10 to minus 10. And they call me the plus two, minus two, because of exactly what you're saying is, I don't really get sad or negative by much.
Jarrad:But, then on the flip side, I don't really get like overly excited like I. It's rare that I'll be bouncing off the walls with like excitement, um. But then like there is that extreme and I think that it's quite interesting to hear you sort of talking about how you're trying to to go through that and like build sort of almost like mental pathways to stop yourself getting too excited and I never really thought of it that way in the sense of, uh, getting to a high peak of a like a happiness, and then having the opposite in the way of like, almost like a sugar crash, of like, yeah, it's like.
Jarrad:And that's when I think about it now, after you say that it's like such a, such a extreme opposite, and it does happen. And I've, even with my personal writing, as I say, like I used to race like marathon lap races and I would always say to whoever was pitting for me at some point through this race I apologize if I say something bad, because I'll probably come through absolutely pissed off for no real reason and I'll probably just snatch the water bottle out of your hand, snatch whatever the food is that you're giving me, and write off and not even acknowledge you and I'm like yeah please don't take that personally and it's like so, yeah, I fully get the, the like, these highs and lows, and it's.
Jarrad:It's cool to hear how you, how you're saying like you're working on not going too high, because I've never thought of, yeah, working on that. I've always sort of working on like not going too negative or like thinking about at the end of the day, there's a light at the end of the tunnel and it may get a little worse, but eventually it's going to get better.
Mel:Yeah, but yeah, never thought of like the opposite of that in the highs it's such a delicate dance because you, like, you want to feel the highs, you want to feel how amazing it is. And I'm not saying like totally turn your emotions off, but just like I've been guilty of being like this is the best descent ever, I'm having the best day ever, and then, as soon as things change because they never stay the same, you know, you maybe hit terrible washboard or it starts raining or whatever, and then, like you, experienced the opposite of it and I'm like, well fuck, everything's horrible, and so if you can kind of just like level it out.
Mel:I mean, when you said you're a plus two minus two, I'm like a plus 11 minus 11. Like normally in my life, I'm like off the spectrum on both ends, but that does not serve you well when it comes to bike pack racing. So I'm like trying to tone myself back in little ways, but still like feeling things deeply, because that's kind of the beauty of all of it yeah and I think you still want to be able to feel that Like.
Jarrad:Personally, I actually wish that I had a wider range and I don't know whether it's just because I've competed for so long that I don't have that range, and it's almost like I'm trying to work on that now, to feel more. But it definitely helps when things get stressful for you not to be stressed. Yeah, it's interesting. There's actually a really good Brazilian jiu-jitsu book called Breathe. So if you're into reading which I think you are look that book up and it's yeah, it's all about learning how to stay calm, because obviously those guys, when someone's got their legs wrapped around your head ready to break your arm, yeah, if you're stressed out, like obviously it's not going to go well.
Jarrad:So it's like there's it's the story about how brazilian jiu-jitsu came to america, but there's all of these like little I don't even know what you want to call them like little stories within it to teach you how to become and like, yeah, um, just, yeah, it's kind of really cool to to read. But yeah, have a read of that, because that's like one of my favorite books. I would have to think super cool.
Mel:Yeah, I'm, I'm very into that kind of stuff yeah, yeah, it's.
Jarrad:That's really sweet. Um moving forwards a bit in the sense of, uh, like women in cycling and like your advertising I can't even pronounce that word right now um, but like community and and things like that. I know you're um like all about that and trying to get people out there and like different participations and stuff like that. Tell me a bit about that, because I know obviously you've got a lot of different things happening with that. How's that happening?
Mel:oh, I don't even know. It's funny like I think I grew up kind of being like, oh, girls suck. And I was like when I was rowing, I was a coxswain, which is the person who steers, and blah, blah, blah. That's irrelevant, but you can be on the men's team, and so I always wanted to be on the men's team. I was rowing, I was a coxswain, which is the person who steers, and blah, blah, blah. That's irrelevant, but you can be on the men's team, and so I always wanted to be on the men's team. I was like women's sports is too emotional, it's too blah, blah, blah. I never wanted to be on the women's team and then eventually the only varsity seat that was available to me and at the time you could only compete on the national team, on the women's team. So I was like shit, if I actually want to go the national team, I better like get over my issues with girls and go be on the women's team and I like really learned, just like how amazing it can be when women support women. I think that like the narrative around, you know, there's not like there historically has not been enough space for women in sports or just in any opportunities, and so that's always that's resulted in this narrative of like pitting women against each other. That's like kind of the history, you know, there's not enough room for all of us. And when I like felt that for the first time of what it was like to actually have like women lifting each other up and supporting each other, I was like, wow, I want more of this in my Like. I don't know how that's going to manifest, but just like that experience was really positive.
Mel:And yeah, fast forward to cycling. And the people who work at the bike shop are dudes. Most people on the road are dudes. Middle-aged dudes in Lycra love to drop you if you pass them. Like yeah, and I was just like you know, I like there has to be a better way than just doing things they've always done.
Mel:So I mean, I frankly don't think I do that much for women's cycling, but, um, I feel strongly that there needs to be more women in the sport and so whatever I can do like I think the best way I can do that is by sharing my own experiences so that people feel less alone. That's why detours was born, because I was like every podcast is hosted by a guy and that's great. Like there are some really good shows, but the perspective of a woman is so different than that of a man and I think that the more we can have more voices in the room, the more inclusive it's going to become. So that's kind of how I I don't even like.
Mel:I think I was just frustrated with being like every there's dudes everywhere and I'm so tired of it, and you can either wait for things to change or you can change them yourself. And in the theme of being an action person, I'm too damn impatient to wait for things to change. So I was like well, I guess I just got to do some stuff, but that's kind of where we are now.
Jarrad:Yeah, I think that's all pretty fair because at the end of the day, you're right, there's nothing stopping women getting on bikes and riding bikes, but at the same time, it is very intimidating. Even when I first moved to Canada, it's like you go into a bicycle store and if nobody knows who you are, there is that intimidation of like do they think that I'm cool enough? Do they think that I'm able to talk the talk, or are they just going to laugh and snicker at me because I don't know the name of a specific trail or something so like don't know the name of a specific trail or something so like. Yeah, that's like such an interesting thought on that. But I want to ask a question, because this came up between a few different people, both male and female, in a conversation I was having the other week and I feel like it's such a good opportunity because of what you're and I didn't know this until right now.
Jarrad:So, but because of what you just said about in the rowing teams and wanting to be part of the male thing, do you feel that there's a point with? How do I explain it? Is there a point that women's sport will resegregate itself in the sense of, like women's only groups and women only. Like I understand, if it's like a men's and women's event and you have separate classes or it's like a women, uh, like a women's specific event yeah, that allows, like, other genders to to participate in, but it's based around women, like I understand that I think that's great, but do you think there's a point where, when women are like, no, no men are allowed, no partners, no allies, no, nothing, it's only women. You think that then becomes where it like re-separates itself? Or do you think that's just a good point for women to get involved before they step into the full inclusivity?
Mel:I think that, like realistically, we're so far away from having it be like. You know, sport being an equal 50 50 split, so I have like a difficult time imagining that. However, I think the reason, at least present day, like women's only spaces are so important is because, like, if I think about myself, I show up to a group ride and it's any gender is welcome, you can identify with whatever gender you want. I show up and I look around me and I'm looking for the other women in the room and it becomes about like looking for those women and then there's maybe three of us in a group of like 15 people and whereas when you go to a woman's only ride, you're not looking around for the other people who are like you, you're already immediately in like a base level place where everybody has a shared commonality.
Mel:And yes, you were at a group ride where you all want to cycle but you like, by separating, at least at the beginning, like having women's only spaces, it really is like, okay, it breaks down a barrier, it's really easy, or not really easy, but it's much easier to like make a new friend or be in the mix or ask a silly question because you you're not looking for. You know you're not looking for the other women, it's all. That space is already there for you. So at least right now, I'm like I think it's really important to have women's only spaces. Perhaps one day when, like, women are ruling the world and you rock up to a group ride and there's six women and three dudes, sure, like maybe we can talk about being like. This is maybe exclusive, but I think the reality is like we've just been probably probably never going to get to that point.
Mel:Yeah, I mean, if we get to 50, 50, amazing, and I am like there's there's events and stuff like that that are getting there. But when we remove gender as the thing that brings us all together, or like I said that poorly, but when it's just like a women's only space, it breaks down a barrier and it's a lot easier to at least get your foot in the door.
Jarrad:Yeah, no, no, I completely agree and it's as I say, it's sort of this ongoing topic that I'm always interested to hear from different people that come from different areas to how that looks, and I'd never heard of anybody start with, like men, like women's sports sucks as a woman, and then eventually like full change and then, and then go to that point because it's sort of, yeah, as I say, it's it's obviously such a controversial topic and a hard thing to talk about and um, but it, yeah, as you're talking, I'm like I should ask, because it's just one of those things, but totally, um, yeah, I think like, yeah, completely fully agree with what you're saying in the sense of there needs to be those spaces to help people get into the sport and and whatever gender you want to identify as like completely fine, but then at the same point, like eventually like using those as stepping stones to then be in a, in a mixed group scenario, if you feel comfortable.
Jarrad:I guess is such a an interesting thing yeah so I guess, moving forward from that, what are some of the future goals and things like that? You've got like? You've just come back from the the second time around. Yeah, at Mountain you unfortunately had a pretty sad ending. I want to put it as yeah. Is there plans to go back again and try and knock it on its head? Or is there other goals.
Mel:I mean there's always other goals, but I mean I said to like everybody before I went to Silk Road. I was like I love it so much that I went to Silk Road. I was like I love it so much that I foresee myself going back, no matter what happens this year. Um, and it just so happens that, uh, my race was ended 200 kilometers shy of the finish, which, after riding 1,700, 200, really feels like nothing. But, um, yeah, and like for context for people to understand, that is basically my pedal broke. Jake took my pedal and then my pedal you know, pedals are supposed to tighten themselves when you're pedaling it kept falling out of his crank and then eventually de-threaded his crank. So then we were down a pedal and a crank and bike shops are very hard to come by in kyrgyzstan. There's only like one or two really good ones air quote in the capital and then the odds of finding a pedal are like very low, but an odds of finding a crank are like the right one for his bike or non-existent. So that was basically that. But yeah, I mean I obviously want to go back. I want to finish.
Mel:In some ways I do feel like I finished, and when I say that I mean like I got. I obviously want to go back, I want to finish. In some ways I do feel like I finished, and when I say that I mean like I got everything I wanted to out of the race, except for just having like a stamp on a piece of paper that represented the finish line. Like I, when I look at my goals for the event and also just like my goals for my own personal growth, I feel like I achieved all of those and so I feel really fulfilled from the experience. But I'm like, oh, I rode so far to not even get my stupid fourth stamp and that that fourth stamp is a big deal. To be clear, it's a very big deal but that's huge.
Mel:I, so I am going to go back and try and finish it, but I also think, like you can't, with these events where so little is in your control, you cannot hinge the value of your experience on a finish, because there's just so many things that could happen that if that's all you're going for, then your odds are like 50-50 in that case, which, like I, don't like those odds. So I have other reasons for going back other than wanting to finish, but that's definitely a big motivator yeah, I think, like it's that old classic saying of, like it's the journey, not the the destination exactly is exactly what you're saying, but like, how would you like?
Jarrad:I know you had other hiccups like you got sick oh yeah you had daily meltdowns as we were talking earlier, like how, what would you like? Obviously going back for a third time.
Mel:You're learning every time you go back yeah you're obviously not going to take a spare bike, because that's I am going to purchase new pedals because apparently they're supposed to be serviced once a year, but me, I just ran yes, yeah, so those pedals had never been serviced and they to be like in hindsight they were making a clicking noise before the race started.
Mel:But I just was like, oh, bikes, bikes click like whatever and the bearings were dead. So that was a lesson for me of being like okay, I actually had basically all new parts of everything on my bike going there which, like the organizer, nelson, tells people like you should have a new drive train, you should have new tires, like the wear and tear is crazy, like don't risk it, you should have new stuff. As expensive as it is. If you're doing this, give yourself the best chance. It also applies to your pedals. But I never considered that and now I'm like, okay, new pedals or serviced pedals is one thing I'm for sure going to do differently.
Jarrad:I could think of how many bikes my single set of pedals have gone through like it's. Yes, they are meant to be serviced and and I fully get that as a mechanic and side of things but if you ask most people, they've probably had the same pedals for the past five years yeah, I mean like it's just just very unlucky. But then at the same time, how many people ride 2 000 kilometers in a year, let alone in 14 days?
Mel:yeah, exactly like I think the the key there yeah, those pedals have seen some shit and they yeah, they should have been, they should have been replaced or, at minimum, serviced. And now I know that and it's like a, like you said, i'm'm learning every time I do it and I did everything. I think I did everything else right except for that one thing, and I could have even done that right and something else could have happened, like we don't know. But I'm a little mad that I that was the one thing that was not on my like list of things to repair and I'm like oh, why do you have to learn Like? Why do you have to learn like?
Jarrad:why does it have to be a bad lesson? Destroys it, yeah, um, and then you also had the hires of 13 ice creams in how many days?
Mel:13 in 13 days. However, I ate five on the first day of the race because it was 40 degrees celsius, um, and like people will say, oh, 13 ice creams over 13 days. That's actually not that much when you break it down. It is a ton.
Mel:When you actually like, look at the list of available resupply and you're like maybe getting to a shop once a day, sometimes every two or three days, so it's like really you don't have much opportunity to buy ice creams. But yeah, I fell off the wagon after day one one, so next year I'm going to eat 20.
Jarrad:Oops, we got a little lag. Yeah, I'm here yeah, we got a little lag you're going from. So sorry, you're saying that it was, uh, every sort of like quite a fair way between all the different stops and things like that. So to yeah to get that many ice creams. It's almost like you need to treat yourself in between yeah, yeah for sure, but next year I'm gonna.
Mel:I'm gonna do so. Joe nation, who we talked about before the show started, but he told me when I interviewed him he would get three at a shop instead of, like I was getting two at a shop. He was getting three. And so I was like, oh, fair play, like they're really, really frozen, I should just get, okay, more next time and eat them on the go. I mean, I ate one on the go every time, but yeah so.
Mel:But do you then also carry like a freezer bag of some sort to keep your food in, or no, how you're, no, you're I'm like how, but like they're that frozen that they're staying cold enough in between well, I mean, you're eating them, like okay, when, when he bought three, he's like eating three back to back, so it's like you eat one and then you eat the next one and then you eat the next one.
Jarrad:He was like hanging on to him. I'm like he'd be drinking it by the third one, you would wait an hour, like in 40 degrees.
Mel:That's insane yeah, you would be, you would be waiting, but you could probably get to the third one on most days that aren't super hot, uh, without it completely melting okay, yeah, fair enough, yeah, so yeah, um, we're coming up to close to an hour.
Jarrad:I've got so many more things I want to ask you, but one of the last big things I wanted to talk about and we kind of touched on a little bit earlier but like your evergreen design and things like that, how did that come about? Because I think that's the first time I'd ever heard of you in the cycling world and I don't even know if you were cycling at that point, because I'm trying to think about the time frame of when that would have been.
Mel:I definitely like I was new. I was really new, uh, but maybe it must have been the second year. I think it was actually before we went on that bike pack to Fernie. It was actually, yeah, it was right about that time have been the second year. I think it was actually before we went on that bike pack to Fernie. It was actually, yeah, it was right about that time. It was the second year I was riding and I don't know how I got connected with Krista and Andrew, but I do know what spurred it was.
Mel:I drew this like lady on a bike graphic. It was like a hot pink graphic and the lady's naked on a bike and I got it printed on t-shirts and I sold a bunch of t-shirts and I guess they saw it like because I had like through Jake and then becoming in the community, and Krista reached out and she was like I love this, could we do like some artist collab? And that was really how that came about. But it's funny because I was like I've always wanted to share my art but I've always been so nervous to do it because I'm like, oh, it's so bad. And I say that because I'm like art is so subjective and I have, like so many people I look up to and I'm like who am I to be doing these things? But then I'm like you know what If it excites?
Jarrad:you, you should just go for it. So, yeah, they saw that and then they reached out and we were off to the races. Yeah, yeah, it was sick.
Jarrad:It was such a cool jersey and it like just popped up everywhere and it was like it was so cool yeah, it was quite, quite interesting because obviously the like whole naked lady on the bike thing gets a lot of attention, but then at the same time it was just like every second person that I saw on a group ride had one of these jerseys. I'm like what and where are these coming from? But then there you go, I get so excited when I see them in the wild.
Mel:I'm like, and people will send me photos and it's so cute and I'm like it's definitely one of me photos and it's so cute and I'm like it's definitely one of my, like, proudest things I've ever worked on and, yeah, that was the coolest. I'd love to do something else like that. Um, I have no, I shouldn't say I have no good ideas right now, but I'm like I'd love to do something like that again.
Jarrad:Yeah, yeah, yeah, as I say it's, it was a really good job, or still is a really good jersey. So, yeah, props to you. Um, yeah, before we wrap up, um, is there anything that you want to mention or is there what's the best way for people to get in contact? Obviously, you've got your podcast and yeah. Instagram and things like that oh, I love Instagram.
Mel:I know people hate on social media, but I'm like because, believe it or not, I'm actually incredibly socially anxious, like I have really bad social anxiety. I hate group rides. I really don't like parties. I I really really struggle in those settings. But I love the internet and I love social media because there's like you can send a DM to anybody and introduce yourself to anybody and there's like the worst thing that happens is they don't answer you but you don't actually have to like deal with that in person. So I'm like, okay, great, so I make lots of internet friends and I love it for that reason. But then I also like follow through and meet, like have a lot of friends because of the internet. So, um, yeah, instagram is the best, best way for people to follow what I'm up to. And, yeah, you should listen to detours if you like bikes and women and blah, blah, blah. That's my podcast, it's, it's.
Jarrad:It's a lot of fun that is, and it's it's so good that you mentioned it earlier about, like, how many men have podcasts and then how little women have, and it's like I've been listening to it for a little while now and it's it is really good to listen to.
Mel:So yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you, yours is great too. I'm stoked to be a guest, which is cool.
Jarrad:No problems at all. Well, um, yeah, thank you for coming on, and if anyone's got any questions for Mel, definitely reach out.
Mel:Yeah, thanks so much.
