Dynamic Life Cycles
Dynamic Life Cycles
Pedals and Submissions: Sarah Thackray
What happens when a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu world champion trades the mats for the open road? Join us as Sarah Thackray shares her exhilarating journey from dominating jiu-jitsu tournaments to conquering road cycling races.
Sarah recounts her accidental introduction to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, sparked by getting off at the wrong bus stop. This serendipitous moment led her to a new athletic passion, eventually propelling her to train in Brazil and compete at the highest levels. She delves into the mental and physical rigors of jiu-jitsu tournaments, drawing intriguing parallels with other high-adrenaline sports and emphasizing the critical need for calm and focus under pressure. Her dedication and personal sacrifices on the path to becoming a world champion offer inspiring lessons for anyone passionate about sports.
Sarah’s story doesn’t stop at Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu; she takes us through her transition into mountain biking and the challenges of navigating a severe injury just weeks into her newfound love. Her resilience shines through as she discusses how structured training aided her recovery and led to a successful stint in enduro racing.
Pivoting again, Sarah is now road cycling with the Diversion Road Bike Club, highlighting her recent participation in the Whistler Granfondo and the unique challenges she faced. She offers a wealth of insights into race strategy and the importance of determination and adaptability, culminating in her hitting her time goal precisely, despite starting at the back of the pack.
Beyond her physical pursuits, Sarah opens up about her battle with eating disorders and her journey toward finding nutritional balance to support her athletic endeavors.
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- Hosted and Produced by Jarrad Connolly
Welcome back to the Dynamic Life Cycles podcast. It's been a hectic few weeks as we get to the end of summer, but life keeps going, with many exciting things on the horizon. This week, we have Sarah Thackeray in the guest seat. Sarah is a Brazilian, jiu Jitsu world champion and someone that has reinvented her life since retiring from the sport has reinvented her life since retiring from the sport. We dive into what makes her tick and how she became world champion in a sport that takes more than 100% dedication. We also talk about some of her eating habits and how she transitioned into cycling in recent years. As always, thank you so much for listening, commenting and sharing, as it really does make my job so much more enjoyable. Once again, enjoy your listen. Thanks. All right, sarah. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm good. How are you, Jared?
Speaker 1:I'm good, you look a little nervous.
Speaker 2:I'm okay.
Speaker 1:You're okay, you're going to relax. Okay, what did you get up to today? Did you ride at all?
Speaker 2:So I had the day off work today and I did lactate threshold testing with my road bike club, um, just over at en route yeah at the coffee shop, um. So that was the main part of the day and then just ran some errands nice it was a good day.
Speaker 1:Which club are you riding with now? Is it with um diversion or is it with someone else? Yeah, that's uh, I do the road biking with diversion yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, nice, and they're a pretty new club, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think this is the second or third year I did some riding with them. Last season I just got into road biking like in the middle of the summer, so I did the second half of the year with them and then this whole season.
Speaker 1:Nice, and when you say you're doing a bit of road riding, it's not really racing, it's just the club rides and things like that, or are you doing some racing as well?
Speaker 2:Both. Yeah, we have club rides a couple times a week and then I've done a little bit of racing, like some of the spring series races, and I just did the Fondo.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:And gonna ramp it up a lot for next year with that.
Speaker 1:Oh awesome, how was the Fondo? I've never done it and I'm always like weirdly scared of doing the Fondo. And it's not that I'm scared of road racing or anything like that, because I've done I don't know, 10 plus years of road racing. But I never hear great stories from the Fondo. It always like sounds scary because there's so many people Like how was that for you?
Speaker 2:I had a really good experience. Um, I could probably spend like half an hour just talking about what happened at the Fondo. Um, we had a team for the St Regis cup, which is like the team race part of the Fondo that goes off pretty early, and it was a good experience. Like there, I didn't have any crashes or mechanicals, um, so that was very positive.
Speaker 2:And then I set a time goal and I hit it exactly like to the minute oh, wow which was good and um, but there were, just like I realized there were some strategy things um that people told me. But then you kind of need the experience to realize, like, what you need to do to really implement it.
Speaker 1:So what sort of strategies were you like trying to implement?
Speaker 2:um so the main thing was, like everyone said, you have to go on taylor way okay um, like, go really hard, get to the front so that you can catch a good group yeah and the people.
Speaker 2:we started at the very back of the start line and I was kind of confused about like why we weren't trying to get further ahead but we were waiting for our whole women's team to like collect before we got there. And then by the time everyone showed up we were at the back and there was not a lot of opportunity, like through Stanley Park, to get to the front. And then the people I thought I was going to ride with for the race, who I thought were going to kind of go for it we were on Taylor Way and I looked at them and I was like when is go time? And they said it's now and we're halfway up Taylor Way and I'm not even working. And then I realized, OK, I just have to go off on my own Taylor way and I'm not even working.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, and then I realized, okay, I just have to go off on my own, yeah. So I kind of went by myself and then I was like leapfrogging people up through like the exits, like kind of near Cyprus of um, like the early part of the race, and then we had a peloton that formed about like 30 people or more yeah and it was interesting.
Speaker 2:It was a interesting group to ride with um, and I just realized I was with some of the people from diversion who were um, like some of the men none of the women who were on my team were in that peloton. But I just like looked at my teammate and I was like my finishing time is already determined by this group, isn't it? And he was like, yeah, pretty much yeah. So that was interesting. And then, like nobody really wanted to go, we kind of all stuck together. Nobody wanted to take a poll.
Speaker 1:It was.
Speaker 2:I don't know, it was an interesting group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's that's like another reason why I think I've steered clear a little bit of the the Fondo is there's so many people and I've done a couple back home in Australia but it's like there's so many people that don't race that I guess don't quite understand the like racing Peloton sort of dynamics versus like they may have ridden I don't know however many times in a in a peloton and in just like a general road ride and a club ride. But I think that's very different to racing in a peloton as such. And, exactly as you're saying, some people will just sit at the back and never do anything and it's sort of hard because there's only a handful of people that will work. Or if, if they get to a hill, they may like speed up on the hill versus staying more consistent and things. And yeah, it's always interesting to hear different people's feedback. But awesome that you got your time.
Speaker 2:That's sick yeah, overall it was like really positive and yeah like, I feel very excited to do it again yeah, so I think that's like a good thing. Like sometimes you finish like a really hard effort or competition and you're either kind of dreading doing it again or you're stoked to try again.
Speaker 1:So yeah, definitely, I was stoked Still am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so awesome. So I guess one of the big reasons why I wanted to get you on and chat is obviously your history with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, things like that, and and correct me if I'm wrong that is the right thing to say Yep, yep, cool. And your history, obviously. Everything that goes into being world champion, like American, brazilian champion like there's so many cool achievements you've had there, brazilian champion Like there's so many cool achievements you've had there but also the mental aspect of getting to that point is like huge, like not many people can call themselves a world champion, let alone like everything else you've done.
Speaker 1:Um, I guess my first question is like, what got you into that? Like where, where did this whole sort of journey start in that side of things? Cause, for me, I've always been super interested in sort of martial arts and that side of things, but never really stepped into that world and I don't, I don't know it's. It's interesting, cause I've never been able to sit and talk to somebody that's like heavily involved in it. So like, how did that come about?
Speaker 2:um, so it's a bit serendipitous how it all happened when I was a kid and through high school I did horse jumping at a pretty high level and that sport gets to be very, very expensive, especially like the further you want to take it um, so it just became kind of like unmanageable.
Speaker 2:And so I took a step back with that and I still felt like I wanted to be like an athlete. I was missing something in my life. Um, like horseback riding I guess it's the same as cycling, where it's like a lifestyle. Um. So then, just having that kind of go away, you feel like you are missing something in your life. And then one day I just got off the bus at the wrong stop and I look up and there is a jujitsu gym right in front of the bus stop and I wandered in. I was just, I don't know why, I was curious about it and I wandered in and I did a class and they said, oh, if you sign up for a whole year, on the first day there's a big discount. And I don't know what made me do it, but I just went for it. I thought, why not?
Speaker 2:I didn't even know if I liked it after that first class.
Speaker 1:I was just confusing.
Speaker 2:And then I quickly began to realize how much I liked it and I did that year at that gym and after that year I switched to a gym that was more competitive, like once I kind of knew, like the local jujitsu landscape, and then I started training, doing more competitions. I'd already done some in the first year.
Speaker 2:And things just ramped up from there. I started getting better results. At first I wasn't very talented at it, just in that first year, but then things just kept improving. I was working really hard and it kept going from there and I was training at a gym called Alliance Vancouver and then I would go to Sao Paulo for a few months at a time, here and there, to do some training.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you got right into it then. Yeah.
Speaker 2:After a few years. That was where things were at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's like insane and yeah, so sorry, continue. That just blows me away that you're like actually traveling to do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like up until so, this was back in like 2016, 2017, brazil was like the mecca for jiu-jitsu. Since then, things have changed and a lot of the top athletes have moved to the States and now it's like Southern California, orange County, san Diego that are like the place to train. But then it was still Brazil and so I took some trips there. It was really special, just like learning the language, the culture, the culture in the gyms like, and then training at that level.
Speaker 1:How does that differ from here? Like what's different? Because from what I understand, I've read a couple of books about this type of thing and like the jujitsu and stuff, this type of thing and like the jujitsu and stuff, and from what I understand, like it was, I'm absolutely mental blanking on the family that brought it to America.
Speaker 2:um, anyway, is it the Gracie? Yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, exactly, and uh, I would have thought a lot of the culture would have come across with that. But I guess, with it sort of starting out in America sort of in that, as you say, like in the South California area, I guess it probably changed a little bit with that. Is that like how? How is it different?
Speaker 2:um like from here yeah, like what?
Speaker 1:like when you say there's different over there, like obviously, how does it feel different in the gym?
Speaker 2:well, the big gyms I've trained at, like in the states, they had more of that like Brazilian culture, and the people running those gyms are Brazilian. You just get that kind of flavor. But I guess the difference in Brazil is it's just a huge part of these people's lives, like they're like these young adults who are just training three times a day and you're like wondering, like how do you make money? Like what?
Speaker 2:do you or you're like I. I guess their family's supporting them, but it's just like huge to them and they want to become champions.
Speaker 1:And here there's still people who are quite serious about it, but everyone's kind of got a day job and then they'll train around it yeah, like, the priority, I guess, is different in that sense that, exactly as you say like and that's in some of the books I was reading is it's like they will do everything and anything to be better at jiu-jitsu, versus like taking that almost as a second part of their life, which is pretty insane. So then, at what point did you start to realize like okay, I need to then like level into like world champs and things like that, like how did that come about?
Speaker 2:I just everything I do I do with like a very high intensity, and once I started getting good results, um, I was just working, um I had a couple jobs at the time. I was just bartending at, like some weddings on the weekends and at the airport, and then I was also working in security um on the weekends and at the airport, and then I was also working in security um on the weekends at the Hard Rock Casino. So I was their like security guard and um, it was a pretty interesting job, um, but I tried to just really work kind of on the weekends, like Friday, saturday, sunday, so that I could do all my training during the week. And so a lot of other things in my life like took a backseat to training and I made a lot of sacrifices, like financially, I had to move back home with my parents and just like all you can think about is training when you're trying to achieve those results. So a lot of like social things were sacrificed as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. And are you originally from Vancouver? Where are you from originally?
Speaker 2:Born and raised in Vancouver Okay.
Speaker 1:Awesome, yeah, pretty rare yeah. And then so when you say, like sacrificing, like how heavy did you go into this? Like full diet, everything like that where you're training as well, oh yeah, you have to like, there's weight classes in ju everything like that, where you're training as well.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you have to Like. There's weight classes in jujitsu, and if you're even 100 grams over, you're disqualified. You can't compete. And the weigh-ins are right before your first match. So you're always like on the scale and hyper focused on that. And I competed at a weight class that I did have to really mind my weight, um, because that was just the girls who were had the same build as me were doing that. And if I went up a weight class I don't think I would have had the same results, um.
Speaker 2:So to be honest, that actually was like a very like mentally unhealthy thing for me, and um like towards the end. It was just no good yeah, that's.
Speaker 1:That's pretty hard sometimes, I guess, like I think, as any athlete like, you're trying to fuel your body a certain way, but then you also can't like over fuel it, I guess, because you have to stick to that weight range, is that sort of the thing?
Speaker 2:I think like definitely, if I had to do it again, I would do it smarter um it's just. The tournaments were so closely packed together. They were just like a couple weeks apart, so I felt like the easiest thing would to do was to just get leaner and stay down yeah um, which ultimately was terrible for my health.
Speaker 2:But yeah, um, I think some people did like some water cuts, um, and just dehydrated themselves and that might have been a better way to go okay, you wouldn't think that would affect the performance, though, or I guess because you have like 20 minutes to try and recover yourself, or yeah, I just, or maybe just compete up a weight class for the less important tournaments.
Speaker 1:What would be the weight difference?
Speaker 2:It was. I competed at 118 pounds with the Gi on, so that weighs about four pounds. And then the one above was 129. So it was at 11 pounds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, which is like quite a lot to put on Like because you obviously you want to be at the maximum you can be, because if you're under by a lot, to put on like because you obviously you want to be at the maximum you can be, because if you're under by a lot then you obviously don't have as much strength and things like that yeah, strength is pretty important, like it yeah, plays a huge factor.
Speaker 2:The weight classes are there for a reason, so for sure, yeah, and that's it.
Speaker 1:Like if you had to put on like nine or ten or sorry, 11 pounds, um, like that's massive to like have to jump up to get to that point, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Putting on that much like and it would have to be like, basically lean muscle.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That takes a lot of time to do and yeah. So that was not the route we went down.
Speaker 1:No, no, that's, that's pretty insane and it's like, as you say, to like maintain that weight between things is like crazy. So, yeah, that's pretty hard, but moving forwards from that, like what kept you like competing at that level Cause you competed for a few years at that level yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 2:so I guess the the start of when I started winning some major tournaments was the summer of 2017, and then the season in jujitsu never really stops. There's things all year round. Um, the major tournaments are like through the spring but, there really are major tournaments all year, so we kept going from there. And then 2018 was the year where I won all the major tournaments. It started with Nogi Worlds and then you go to Europeans in Lisbon, portugal, in January, right after Christmas. So your whole Christmas.
Speaker 1:You're like watching your weight.
Speaker 2:And then after that, what's next? You have the Pan Ams, and then you go to Abu Dhabi for the World Pro, and then there's Brazilian Nationals, and then there's Worlds, and then you think you can take a break, but then there's, like, american Nationals if you choose to go to it, and it just keeps going on and on, so like the calendar is, and is that, pretty crazy.
Speaker 1:The majority of the competitions you're doing that was North America. Obviously you said like a few international competitions there, but like is there much competition in Vancouver? Or are you traveling throughout North America for a lot of these?
Speaker 2:or there are no major tournaments in Vancouver. Okay, a lot of them Pan Ams and Worlds are both in Southern California and there's a lot of good competition, like if you live in that area, you can take short trips and get a lot of good tournaments in. There's a lot in vegas now too, yeah, but other than that, um, uh, europeans was in lisbon. I don't know where it is now.
Speaker 2:It might still be there you've kind of been out of the scene a bit and then, obviously, brazilian nationals is in brazil, um, and you have the world pro, which is in abu dhabi, which is in the united arab emirates yeah, it's like an hour drive from dubai, okay, um, and then, if you choose, there's like tournaments in japan, all over the world yeah, yeah, it like it takes you places.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I bet, I bet Um is there and like. This is one thing I don't know and I haven't looked into yet, but obviously you've got all the different belts and different color belts and things like that. When you're in a tournament, are you facing off against only the same level belt or are you facing off against anybody in that weight range?
Speaker 1:It's by belt and by weight it is okay, I wasn't sure, because I know, obviously, and everyone jokes about like the black belt and things like that and all the rest of it but yeah, I wasn't sure if there was like multiple belts that were sort of categorized, I guess, within the weight range. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, there you go. I didn't know that when you were sort of going through some of these bigger competitions, like what was the mental prep going into that? Because, yeah, like I'm just trying to think and trying to relate to this a little bit in the sense of, like, some of the things I've done and mental prep, it's just like it's not, I guess, a long time that you're on the mat but at the same time you've got multiple fights within that tournament, so you can't really sort of switch off. I guess. Is that like how, how do you feel when you're going into a match? Like obviously you have to be confident in backing yourself, because if you don't like it's, it's probably over before it starts. But like, how's that feel?
Speaker 2:it's definitely very nerve-wracking, um, the jiu-jitsu tournaments are formatted in a single elimination, so what that means is if you lose one match, you're out. Say, your category has 32 people in it. One round takes it to 16, and then to eight, to four, to two, to one, until there's like a finals match. So I guess there's a lot of pressure because of that. There's no like second chances, and then I would get quite nervous. I'm like a high strung person, but you just really have to like collect yourself and focus. Um, you have to be strong and confident. You don't want to go into it like over aggressive, um, or like trying to feel anger or anything like that. Um, even though you're fighting someone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, you're about to step in and like absolutely throw down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just trying to think like you definitely have to stay in the zone between your matches. Sometimes there are like long delays between them, so you have to like keep eating, stay fueled, stay focused, and just the adrenaline is crazy.
Speaker 1:It's more than you get in cycling.
Speaker 2:So you have to do anything you can to like keep the adrenaline down between matches. Um, because it I found like the more nervous I am, the more adrenaline I have. It just tires you out. It drains all your energy, like in the matches yeah and like your muscles get tighter and you feel so much more fatigued.
Speaker 1:So that was like a big thing for me, like sometimes I'd just try and find a quiet place, I'd put my headphones on zone out almost yeah, I would like kind of go between listening to like my pump up music and then trying to like calm down from it, go back and forth yeah, and I'm like, as I'm thinking about it, it kind of reminds me of when I was racing downhill to some degree, because it's like and I don't know what the length of the matches are, but like a downhill run is like, on average, like a four-minute run as such, so like super high adrenaline, and I didn't even think about the adrenaline, and then like having like an adrenaline dump and then just like being exhausted after. But exactly that like if you like an adrenaline dump and then just like being exhausted after. But exactly that like if you do like adrenaline dump after adrenaline dump. That's a hard thing to say multiple times. You're right.
Speaker 1:Eventually your body wants to crash and almost have a sleep yeah um, and it's like interesting how you're saying like you have to almost have like a zero level in between the matches to then like help it recover and like get rid of it in your system a little bit as much as you can yeah it's hard at those big tournaments because the atmosphere is just like electrifying and there's like a lot at stake.
Speaker 1:Like everyone who's coming to these world championships, they're like yeah, putting their heart and soul into this, yeah it's really tough competition at those big ones so yeah, like, is there like qualifying to get to that point? How do? How does that work?
Speaker 2:um. Anyone can sign up so there are huge tournaments um, but usually it's not just random people but it's definitely the biggest divisions of any of the tournaments.
Speaker 1:And they, just like, literally, are halving the whole way through the tournament.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then is there like some form of qualification to like who you're fighting before it starts, or is it a random draw?
Speaker 2:So it used to be random draw and now they have a ranking system where you can get points throughout the whole year yeah and then they balance it out that way.
Speaker 1:So if you're a top seed, you'll face the last place person um, so I guess there's more incentive to do these like smaller tournaments yeah just get your points up and yeah, yeah, because that would be like such a hard thing if it was like, essentially, what would have been one and two in the final face off in the first round, like that has happened, I think that's probably why they implemented those changes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but there were a lot of times where you would see they would release the brackets, um, like a couple days before, and you'd look and you'd see a first round match that you're like that could have potentially been a finals yeah I'm trying to think if I ever had I don't think that ever happened to me where I had a really tough yeah first match, um, but sometimes the person I'd face in like a quarter or the semi-finals was tougher than in the finals.
Speaker 1:But at all the major tournaments my finals match opponent was very, very tough like I yeah, like never had any easy ones, so it kind of does filter out the way it's meant to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and one way of looking at it is if you are meant to be the champion, you need to beat everyone anyway exactly.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, and it's like it's crazy to get to that point um, yeah, yeah, it's insane to get to that point. Um, yeah, yeah. It's insane to think about all of the different aspects that go into that to get to that one fight at the end.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, is there much like reward involved with the like at the level you're at in the sense of like money and things like that, or not too much?
Speaker 2:There is not a lot of money in sport jujitsu, I think for a couple of reasons. It's not in the Olympics and then the second reason is it's not much of a spectator sport for people who are not in the martial arts community and not in the jujitsu community. I don't know a single person who, just off the street, watches sport jujitsu. They may watch like the UFC, but that's not what this is it's different, for sure so it's a tough sport to make money in.
Speaker 2:And then a lot of the sponsorships are kind of just like gear or um, like maybe a flight here and there it was very tough to make money, which is why I had to make all of those financial sacrifices, and then all the money I did um made like bartending and working in security that went towards my flights and my Airbnbs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. No, I I never got to a high enough level in cycling that I got money incentives, but I definitely had same sort of thing. It's like lots of gear, lots of sort of little bonuses here and there, but same thing. It's like crazy how much money you can pour into something, essentially to pay to play, sort of thing yeah, crazy.
Speaker 2:I guess cycling is kind of the same in that sense. Yeah, but more because it's just like a gear-based sport.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, um, so tell me a bit more about the cycling Like we touched on it before, with you getting into the Fondo side of things. What was the transition, like out of uh jujitsu into cycling, like, was that part of training and things like that, or is there something else?
Speaker 2:Not at all. Um, I like officially retired from jujitsu in like November of 2019. I, I, just I was getting so many health problems from all the weight cuts and the stress and it became unmanageable. Um, just trying to train while dealing with these health issues at the same intensity, I completely burnt myself out out. So I was like sick in every way of it and just I decided to take a step back.
Speaker 2:And then, um, and then the pandemic hit and I didn't really know what to do with myself and, um, I was just in a very dark place, like I lost my identity with jujitsu. Um, and then, when the pandemic happened, I was hanging out with some of my friends from jujitsu and this was at the beginning of the pandemic. None of us knew what to do. We were all like completely bored. So we would like bike around the vancouver seawall and then, like go to the liquor store, get some beers and sit in the grass and I was like this is so boring, yeah, but then one of the guys had this like junky old mountain bike and I was like this is so boring, yeah.
Speaker 2:But then one of the guys had this like junky old mountain bike and he was like telling me about it and I was like, oh, mountain biking might be cool. And, um, my ex at the time, his brother, was into biking and I knew he mountain biked for a while. So I like reached out to him and I was like I'm thinking about getting a bike, um, maybe trying this. And he was like, okay, you need to get this bike and or try a few of these different ones. And I ended up getting this like pretty cheap bike. Yeah, didn't know what I was getting myself into, didn't even know if I liked it.
Speaker 1:So, like, kind, of the same as yeah, just like diving head first and then, um, I actually ended up really enjoying it.
Speaker 2:I started taking some bike lessons right after I started with Johan Borelli. I was his first student, actually when he first started coaching.
Speaker 2:And I was like a new, new beginner and we went out to Squamish and I was like having the time of my life. Like I remember I did the little wooden loop at the end of Rupert after like looking at it for like so long and then he finally like coaxed me into doing it. I was so excited. And then, six weeks into biking, I went biking with um, the person who was helping me pick out the bike. He said, oh, I'm taking another beginner out, we're gonna do a couple laps of John Deere, do you want to come? And I was like, yeah, that sounds amazing, let's do that. And then we did not ride John Deere, we ended up doing all these loamers and it was so scary for me. Like six weeks into biking, yeah.
Speaker 2:I would get off and walk the bike everywhere. And then we got to the end of the ride and they decided to do boogeyman and I was looking at the sign I was like, oh, this is a double black, like I don't think I should do this. And they were like, oh, it's sketchy, but whatever, you'll be OK. And I felt so uncomfortable about it. But I didn't know how to get down the mountain by myself. So I thought to myself, ok, worst case scenario, I like walk half the trail, yeah, and then every single trail we'd done like up until there I was slow, so they had like dropped me and then we'd meet up at the bottom of the trail and it was the same thing on Boogeyman. And then I felt like I was like slowing them down. So I felt pressured to like hurry up and I get up onto that the log ride at the end of the trail. And then I saw how high up I was.
Speaker 2:I was kind of like almost at the halfway point and I panicked and I jumped off the bike because I think I'd seen some YouTube video that was like, if you're on a skinny and you think you're going to fall, like jump away from your bike. And I didn't realize how high up I was because, like the bushes had grown up and I just kept falling, and falling, and falling and I landed on my feet and then I looked down and my leg was perpendicular to where like screamed, hoping they would come back and they did and I ended up going to the hospital um search and rescue took me out.
Speaker 1:I thought I was gonna die. I was like in shock.
Speaker 2:Um had surgery the next day and that was my. That was how I got into mountain biking.
Speaker 1:That was the entry. The very beginning yeah, that's insane and that's like I know the exact bridge you're talking about. That's super high to jump off yeah, like whenever I've ridden across I'm like I just have to keep looking at the end because I'm like I don't want to look off the side.
Speaker 2:But I don't ride it ever. Yeah, I bet. I could fully understand why not like after, like for months after that happened, I would like wake up in the middle of the night. I'd just sit bolt upright like thinking about like falling off that bridge and I wanted to scream like it was so scary and I it was getting back into mountain biking after that. I was off for several months, obviously and then um, getting back into it.
Speaker 2:I was just so nervous and it was I knew I wanted to keep doing it because I loved it so much, like the first six weeks, the taste of it that I got yeah, you got bitten by it because I loved it so much, like the first six weeks, the taste of it that I got yeah, you got bitten by the bug.
Speaker 2:I loved it, but it was, yeah that it was very tough to recover from that injury. It was so painful I don't think I could well if I had to do it again. I would but like, yeah, in a sense, I don't know if I could do that again yeah, like any form of like surgery related recovery is huge.
Speaker 1:Like it's crazy. Did they pin the leg or is it just?
Speaker 2:yeah, they put uh plates and screws in. I had them taken out in a second surgery like a year and a half later, but um, I didn't feel like myself until I got the metal taken out okay, what do you mean by that? Like they just put so much hardware in that like I couldn't Okay, what do you mean by that? Like they just put so much hardware in that like I couldn't jog, I couldn't like squat down properly.
Speaker 2:My ankle was like very thick. Like, just looking at it, I had a cankle, I don't know. It just didn't feel right, like even biking, I just felt more hesitant. And then now it feels good. But I actually I had an accident this summer and now I have metal in my big toe on the same foot.
Speaker 1:So I've had a lot of trauma to my right side yeah big toes are a hard one and I don't know how it feels for you. Like I broke and dislocated my big toe I don't know like 15 plus years ago now, but it's fused. So instead of it bending in the middle, it just stays straight. So it's almost like yeah, like if I do this, just like that's the same with mine.
Speaker 1:They fuse the joint, yeah and it's like if I walk around without shoes on, I walk with a limp and it's so bad because if I'm like in flip-flops or whatever people like, oh, what's wrong with you? I'm like injuries, like yeah, but yeah, so how long ago did you do your toe? That was. When did you do that? This past year?
Speaker 2:yeah, this was june 17th okay and then I had surgery a couple days later. Um, actually I got back into jujitsu just to see if I still liked it again, like maybe a year and a half ago, and I'd been training, um, a little bit like on the side with the biking, and it happened I'd just gotten back from an enduro race in Idaho. Um, we, I did the North American Enduro Cup yeah.
Speaker 2:I won my category. I was so fired up um, it was a really good race. And then we drove from home from Idaho that night and it was. We got home at like 1 am and I was so pumped up from the race I had the week off. I was like, what do I want to do the next day? Instead of resting like a normal person, I was like I want to go to a jujitsu class. And then that very next day I had this weird accident where my like foot twisted against the mat underneath the weight of me and the person I was training with and it was the same thing Like I dislocated my big toe, tore some ligaments and it was fractured.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:So they tried to pop it back in the hospital. It wouldn't go and had to have surgery and they pinned it and fused the joint.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, yeah huge.
Speaker 2:The surgeon was like you're done with jujitsu now. So now I think I am done.
Speaker 1:There were a lot of signs from the universe before that saying don't do it, but I didn't listen.
Speaker 2:No, fair so now we're into cycling and that actually, um, kind of changed the trajectory of my summer and because I was able to get on the trainer quite quickly after that because you don't have to bend through your foot and then I got on this training program that one of my coaches, sebastian from Diversion, he put together for me. So I started training after that. It was like a really good focus with rehabbing my foot, and then the whole summer pivoted towards road riding because of that.
Speaker 1:So tell me a bit more about the mountain biking. So you got back from broken leg, started competing, things like that. You've had some pretty solid results. I don't have them actually written down. I should have written them down, but you've had some pretty solid results with that. Tell me a bit about that, because there was, I think I saw a couple of the like EWS um, like it was EWS 80 podiums and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Um. So what was it? The last year that it was called EWS before it changed to the EDR? What was that?
Speaker 1:20, 22, 22.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I did three of the races. I did the Whistler um Enduro and then I did Maine and Vermont, so those were three weeks back to back to back. Um, so we went to new England. It was a really nice trip. I went with uh Levi, my fiance, and we raced all three of those races and they were awesome. It was like very different terrain in new England. Um, we had a blast at those races. I came fourth in Whistler and then I came second in Vermont and first in Maine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, so it was a really positive experience.
Speaker 2:And then last year I did a lot more enduro racing. I did a lot of the Cascadia enduro series, which is a series that is, I guess, in the Pacific Northwest Most of them were in Washington, yeah. So I did like five of those, um, I think I won them all. Okay. I did the expert women's category, yeah, um, and then it was a lot of fun. I've been doing the Squamish Enduro yeah what else?
Speaker 1:yeah, like tons. It was like every second photo through that period was like you on a bike or on the podium or yeah, it looked really good.
Speaker 2:Lots of enduro racing, and then last summer I got into road biking a little bit um as well how?
Speaker 1:how do you find, coming from like I guess from a super early age, because like horse riding is not that I've ever done it too much, but like growing up around a lot of like show jumpers and things like that, and then like into the rest, like I shouldn't say wrestling the jujitsu, and then into the mountain biking, like so much like adrenaline fueled sort of sports, and then into road racing or road riding and I find road riding like so much less adrenaline based. How's that like as a transition for yourself? Like do you find it like nice or different, or like how would you describe it?
Speaker 2:I feel like there's like a lot of adrenaline in the mountain biking. Um, I don't know I I get more nervous than I have to be, I think, um, and then, like before each stage, you have those butterflies in your stomach, like before you drop in for each of the enduro stages and then the road biking, I feel like there is a bit of adrenaline, like before you start, like the lead up to it, um, just not knowing what to expect and whatnot. But then once you get going, there isn't as much adrenaline.
Speaker 1:It's very different from anything I've ever done before yeah, that's what I'm wondering, because it's like, even myself I'm trying to relate to this a little bit in the sense of like I grew up racing motorcycles and then did a lot of mountain biking, but I added road cycling as a training aspect, so it was like there to help me, versus you're going into it as like an actual sport outside of like any real like need to do it.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean like, and it's so different from everything you've done and that's why I'm interested to see how, how you, how you go about that, because it's like, yeah, as I say, and exactly to say I I get the like a little bit of nerves beforehand, but I feel like it's almost like a bit of like a chess match with the strategy, and you sort of mentioned that earlier with the fondo about how you need to be so conscious of like okay, I need to be doing this at this point of the ride and this at this point of the ride and this at this point of the ride, and it has, it's like, as you say, so much strategy behind it. Like do you find it easier to think about because of what you've gone through in the past, or I guess I don't know if you've got much to compare to, but like are you? Yeah, how's that feel? Like is it something you can work with?
Speaker 2:I think there's similarities through sport, like when you do one sport at a high level, it's easy to, I guess, put those lessons you've learned towards the next sport and the next sport, even if they are different. You learn how to train, you learn how to focus, you learn how to put in high quality efforts, um, so that is all quite similar. But it's been really interesting, like transitioning from like a power-based sport to an endurance sport. And then with mountain bike racing, kind of in the middle of that, it's a little bit of both, like, um, the mountain bike training that I've done with my mountain bike coach, joel, and blueprint athlete development. We do a lot in the gym and work on being powerful and explosive, but then also like bike handling skills. And then there's that um endurance aspect where you have to be eating throughout the day and like keep your energy up, cause it's a huge day on the bike.
Speaker 2:And then road biking is even further along the spectrum of that, yeah, um, where I've just like done nothing in the gym to get ready for that and you're just on the bike on the trainer yeah and um, I guess there's still that same strategy, the way there is in jujitsu, the way there is in horse jumping, um, so it's the same but different, and yeah, I'd never thought of it that way, in the sense of like as an athlete. You're an athlete, and then it's just how you apply those skills to whatever the task is one of my favorite quotes is the way you do one thing is the way you do everything yeah, I could fully see that.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, I, yeah, I would 100% agree. There's so many things that and I talk about this a lot with different people is like everything I've learned and the way that I run, like my career, slash, whatever you want to call it, like work life all is lessened from being an athlete, and it's like all of my decisions and the way that I go about things and my work ethic. I think all comes from being an athlete, and it sounds like that's exactly what you're saying yeah which is like super cool.
Speaker 1:Um, so you mentioned earlier a bit about, uh, like nutrition diet, things like that. Um, I want to ask you about like nutrition diet, things like that. I want to ask you about like your carnivore stage and what you went through with that and how that like changed your body and what you were talking about that. Because, like, I always joke about like if I could eat a steak every day, I would, and I always get like weird criticism when I make these comments about like it's bad for you or you shouldn't eat it, or you're going to get like this or that, and there's so many different opinions. But I've never actually met somebody that was like hardcore involved in it and like I'm just interested to hear your thoughts about it because you're obviously out of that phase to some degree from what I understand. So it's not like you're still like eating meat only is 100% positive, but like is there like a balance that you've found after that sort of thing? And like where did that come from?
Speaker 2:How that started was, I think I touched on earlier. I developed a lot of health problems from jujitsu, from all the weight cutting and the stress, and one of the major things I was dealing with was digestive problems. I felt like I wasn't digesting my food properly and then my stomach would be so bloated that I would try and avoid, like the evening, jujitsu classes, because even tying my belt and like bending over the pressure like on my stomach was very uncomfortable. So it got worse and worse. I went to these specialists, doctors, naturopaths, um and nobody could figure out what the issue was. I tried a lot of different medications and um ended up getting what is it like? Gastroscopy? Like where they put?
Speaker 2:a camera down and nobody knew what to do. And when you're dealing with health problems that are impacting your life so much like, you get desperate. And I was doing so much research on the internet, taking all these different supplements. Nothing was helping. And I saw people said they cured their mystery digestive problems by going on a keto diet. So I thought, why not like, let's give this a try? So I started doing a keto diet and then immediately my stomach problems went away, but then they slowly started coming back again. And then I did more googling and I saw people said, oh, I went on a carnivore diet and that helped all my health problems. So I thought, why don't I take this one step further?
Speaker 2:yeah try that out. And um, then once again, like, all of my stomach problems went away for like a week or two, but then slowly started coming back, but not to the same degree as before. Yeah and um, so I actually stayed on a carnivore diet for like two and a half years, um, pretty strictly, and there were some positives from it and some negatives.
Speaker 1:Obviously I'm no longer doing that so the negatives did outweigh the positives, but um so when you say like strictly carnivore, explain to me what your like daily meals would look like like. Is it do you have? Obviously you have the meat side of it, but is it only meat or is it like other vegetables and things, or so what a carnivore diet is, is you only eat animal products?
Speaker 2:so that can include um dairy and eggs, okay, and meat obviously, um seafood, but no vegetables wow no sugar, no, nothing like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, yeah, so it's like, yeah, almost the like, complete opposite to a vegan diet. I guess of some description yeah um, where it's as you say, yeah, purely animal product only the opposite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, which is crazy, like. And then moving forwards from that, like where are you now with your diet? Because, um, I've had a bunch of different like intolerances and stomach issues and things like that, and I'm always like interested to hear how people have gone about their own sort of things like where did you get to and where have you found the balance, like with that well, I was in such a bad place with, like, my stomach issues at the time, and then, because I was getting some relief from the carnivore diet, I felt like every little thing that deviated from that I almost was like punished for it.
Speaker 2:So that in itself became like very mentally stressful and exhausting just being so strictly on this. But what was the question again?
Speaker 1:How have you found the balance? Because obviously, as you say, you're not strictly carniv like right right what have you added back in to balance that out?
Speaker 2:so I've actually stopped it completely and I feel like, um, when I went off it, that's when I was able to start healing. I don't know if it was because I'd had some like time between, when I'd stopped doing all the rigorous jiu-jitsu training, um, but I finally went off of it and was still dealing with some stomach problems, but they've slowly improved. So now I'm just eating a normal diet, which was very hard. At the beginning it felt like wrong, because you're conditioned like through the carnivore community to learn like.
Speaker 2:Carbs are bad, sugar is bad and you don't need any of these things. They're actually killing you yeah but in some ways, I think there are like a lot of positives to eating like that and, um, there were like stories that you hear like I was part of like a facebook support group and people who were morbidly obese they'd like cured their diabetes and lost a ton of weight doing this and they felt like they'd found like food freedom because they were always counting calories and eating low calorie things.
Speaker 2:And now they're like you can have as much steak as you want, you can have burger patties, as much chicken as you like and bacon. So they were. It really worked for them. I don't know what these people did long-term, but it sounded like it was really positive for a lot of people Dealing with other things Because it didn't work for me doesn't mean it's not.
Speaker 1:For sure, and that's.
Speaker 2:For other people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm always like a big believer of a balanced diet and it's always interesting Like, yeah, I went through a few different naturopaths and then, um, I don't even know what the guy called himself that I went and saw but he did a bunch of blood tests and then we sent them off and then I essentially came back with a list of foods that were like good for me to eat and then different levels of sort of intolerance that I shouldn't eat.
Speaker 1:Um, and it's quite amazing, if I stay towards on the like if we call it the green list how much energy and how much better I feel versus as I slowly get towards, like the foods that I shouldn't be eating yeah, and it's like always interesting because I I feel the Like if I have like more meats and things like that, I generally feel less bloated, but I definitely believe that there is a point where I can eat too much of that and then I end up being bloated anyway. So it's like it's interesting. As I say, I've never really met somebody that was like purely strictly like only meat or like carnivore.
Speaker 2:You say so it's like, yeah, it's kind of cool to to hear that side of things I think, like going through that, you become like very aware of like what works for your body and what doesn't. Um, so that was like a lesson I learned through that and it was interesting. Like you try and become your own healer yeah through these kind of things.
Speaker 1:So interesting like you try and become your own healer, yeah, through these kind of things. So what? What sort of turned you off that diet like? Did you start to just want to try other things, or was there like something that turned you from that to being back to more balanced?
Speaker 2:well, at the end of the day, the reason I was doing it was to try and help like the bloating and the like abdominal distension that I was dealing with, and it wasn't really doing what I was hoping it would do. What it was at the beginning, yeah, um, so that was the whole reason I was doing it. It wasn't helping with that, okay, and then it once you do it, you realize how tough it is socially, like any social thing you do, you're struggling to just eat meat and I was like bringing like jerky bars and like snacks with me everywhere because they're like you'd go to like a party and they would just have like donuts, and chips and yeah, all the things you normally eat and when I think, when you restrict your diet, it almost it becomes like very, um, tough mentally.
Speaker 2:It was for me so, I think in a way that was kind of like an eating disorder and so I would only be focused on, like, my meals and what I was eating and what I couldn't eat. Thought of going to a restaurant was extremely stressful for me and it took over my life, um, and so it just wasn't good long term for me.
Speaker 2:So I just decided enough was enough. And then I just started trying to eat like low carb things at the beginning and, yeah, like obviously my stomach was not doing well, but after some time things started to balance out. And I'm still not fully well, but it's enough that it's not like debilitating to my daily life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no for sure. Yeah, that's as I say. It's a pretty interesting thing to talk about and go down that path a little bit. For sure, we're coming up pretty close to an hour, so thank you for coming on. If anyone has any questions, where's the best place for them to like reach out and ask your questions and and things like that um, I guess my instagram account, yeah, at sarahthackery, yeah, easy, yeah no, well, thank you for coming on and, um, yeah, super interesting to hear, like all sorts of different aspects that you've gone through in your life.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, cheers.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Jared Cheers.
